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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: stop the "Neo" prog label ?
    Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:46
.

Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 10:59
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:46
If Tonight, Tonight was on a Peter Gabriel album, then watch the ratings on the website shoot through the roof.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:45
I am not sure Genesis were ever in search of any elusive 'musical quality' in the sense Ivan seems to suggest.   Even when their music was more complex and ambitious, that was never the point of their music and it was always more accessible than ELP or KC, even Yes or JT at times.   I personally do not regard Invisible Touch as a masterpiece nor do I consider pop Genesis particularly masterful....mainly, I find Collins's singing too dull for me to dig that kind of music.   But I do have to point out that it's not as if they transformed overnight from Dave Brubeck to Debbie Gibson.   Even IT is still proper songs, not just a collection of dance beats.  Only the 'clothes' are distinctly 80s.  So what?  Fans have no monopoly on what sounds an artist can use. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:45
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Snow Dog

[

The album is quality. 

FOR YOU

For me is  a waste of talent

FOR YOU

For me it isn't a waste of talent.

That's what i said from the first moment
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:44
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Snow Dog

^Thank you for allowing me the option.

I only ask to be allowed the same option

When have I not allowed anyone anything? What is wrong with you? Am I stopping you in some way?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:43
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Snow Dog

[

The album is quality. 

FOR YOU

For me is  a waste of talent

FOR YOU

For me it isn't a waste of talent.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:43
Originally posted by Snow Dog

^Thank you for allowing me the option.

I only ask to be allowed the same option
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:42
^Thank you for allowing me the option.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:41
Originally posted by Snow Dog

I find most Prog fans insufferable most of  the time.

Then it must be a torture for you to be in a prog site where most people are Prog fans.

Sounds like masochism, I wouldn't join a Pop site, because I have very little in common with Pop fans.

It's funny, how it's an embarrassment  to be a Prog fan even in a Prog site created for Prog fans.

But it's your option.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 10:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:39
Originally posted by Snow Dog

[

The album is quality. 

FOR YOU

For me is  a waste of talent
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:35
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by Snow Dog

^They always wanted success and money from the very beginning. But I don;t ubnderstand why it is lazy.

Besides Steve didn't call people who dislike it intellectually lazy, he called that to people who continually slam it. It gets boring to read too

Ha ha Invisible Cruth is crap..ha ha.

I believe it's lazy, because being capable musicians, they ceased to search for quality and went for easy money.

Lately it seems offensive to love Prog, people call Prog lovers by many names, from arrogant, self indulgent to Prog snobs, and seem to forget we are here because our common love for Prog.

But at the end, allow people to voice their opinions about the album, this is not personal, honestly i prefer using it as a Frisbee than listening it.

Iván

The album is quality. 

I find most Prog fans insufferable most of  the time.


Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 10:37
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:31
Originally posted by Snow Dog

^They always wanted success and money from the very beginning. But I don;t ubnderstand why it is lazy.

Besides Steve didn't call people who dislike it intellectually lazy, he called that to people who continually slam it. It gets boring to read too

Ha ha Invisible Cruth is crap..ha ha.

I believe it's lazy, because being capable musicians, they ceased to search for quality and went for easy money.

Lately it seems offensive to love Prog, people call Prog lovers by many names, from arrogant, self indulgent to Prog snobs, and seem to forget we are here because our common love for Prog.

It seems more popular to bash ELP than to say anything about 3 men Genesis.

But at the end, allow people to voice their opinions about the album, this is not personal, honestly i prefer using it as a Frisbee than listening it.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 10:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:17
^They always wanted success and money from the very beginning. But I don;t ubnderstand why it is lazy.

Besides Steve didn't call people who dislike it intellectually lazy, he called that to people who continually slam it. It gets boring to read too

Ha ha Invisible Cruth is crap..ha ha.


Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 10:25
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 10:10
Originally posted by Lazland

To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy.

Why?

I heard it several times but hate it, it is horrendous and in my opinion less than mediocre, I don't believe that anybody who heard that album will be hooked with Foxtrot or Nursery Cryme (With a couple of exceptions), because there's absolutely no connection except for three names.

If you like it it's OK, but let us express our opinions, for me is an aberration to see the name of the band who recorded Supper's Ready or The Musical Box playing Tonight, Tonight Tonight or Throwing it all Again.

And it's not my opinion alone, the average is 2.35 while all the Gabriel era albums are near 5 stars, with 53% of the reviewers placing it between 1 and 2 stars.

It's OK if you like it, everybody has a taste, but it's ok to hate it and believe it's an aberration without the need of calling those who disagree intellectually lazy..I bashed the album hundreds of times, because I believe it deserves bashing, but never called names to those that love it.

I believe it's artistically lazy to release that album....But commercially profitable for the trio, and that's Ok if what they wanted is the money before anything.

Iván



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 10:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 18:04
Originally posted by Roland113

Originally posted by Tom Ozric

............and put it this way - I was not too impressed when I heard I.T. back in 1987 - most of its songs were getting airplay, and only the 'Domino' epic was memorable for me.  When I heard the self-titled album at the same time in 1987, it was a different story.......haha heh, owww............
I will apologise for the offensive name I gave it, but I won't apologise for not liking the damn thing........

Thanks Tom, I appreciate that.  

and it was only the insult that I took offense at, not that you didn't like it  :)

I follow what you say Smile I agree that I.T. is a gateway for discovering Prog...... - if it's possible, somehow to remove the offensive word or my original post which contained it.......??  Very childish of me.......Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 15:38
Originally posted by Roland113

Originally posted by rogerthat

I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either.   I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog.   

I might have made too big of a leap there, I knew the connection that I was trying to make.

What I was trying to say is that Invisible Touch got a lot of people of my generation interested in prog, it was a gateway drug if you will.  While the music is not entirely what provided the inspiration, it was so popular that it caused many of us to explore more prog.

Here's my personal story, I loved Invisible Touch, the album.  Told my Dad about it, he said, 'Oh, you like Genesis, let me play some of their older stuff'.'  So he put in "A Trick of the Tail" and I was instantly hooked on Dance on a Volcano.  Honest to God, when he told me that Peter Gabriel (who was also tearing up the charts with Sledgehammer) used to be the lead singer of Genesis, I didn't believe him.  Sure enough, he got out the vinyl edition of Selling England and I loved it.

Without Invisible Touch, that conversation wouldn't have happened and I may not have become an avid prog fan.  Over the years, mostly on here, I have had similar conversations with other people my age.  It's not just me.

While the music of Invisible Touch ultimately wasn't influential on the third wave, the album was responsible for opening the door for many of the musicians that make up the so called third wave.

An astute and very knowing post. Absolutely correct in its telling.

My experience was with Duke. I had listened to Genesis since being introduced to Wind & Wuthering. I loved ATTWT, and Duke even more. When I was at school one day, a friend came up with a vinyl copy of Nursery Cryme, and said to me "look at the names on this. Gabriel, Hackett. Bloody brilliant, and all because you introduced me to the band". 

A lot of fans were introduced to "classic" prog by such albums, and I know Invisible Touch was amongst them.

To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy.


Edited by lazland - January 26 2013 at 15:39


In Lazland, life is transient. Prog is permanent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 14:23
Originally posted by rogerthat

I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either.   I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog.   

I might have made too big of a leap there, I knew the connection that I was trying to make.

What I was trying to say is that Invisible Touch got a lot of people of my generation interested in prog, it was a gateway drug if you will.  While the music is not entirely what provided the inspiration, it was so popular that it caused many of us to explore more prog.

Here's my personal story, I loved Invisible Touch, the album.  Told my Dad about it, he said, 'Oh, you like Genesis, let me play some of their older stuff'.'  So he put in "A Trick of the Tail" and I was instantly hooked on Dance on a Volcano.  Honest to God, when he told me that Peter Gabriel (who was also tearing up the charts with Sledgehammer) used to be the lead singer of Genesis, I didn't believe him.  Sure enough, he got out the vinyl edition of Selling England and I loved it.

Without Invisible Touch, that conversation wouldn't have happened and I may not have become an avid prog fan.  Over the years, mostly on here, I have had similar conversations with other people my age.  It's not just me.

While the music of Invisible Touch ultimately wasn't influential on the third wave, the album was responsible for opening the door for many of the musicians that make up the so called third wave.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 14:09
Originally posted by Tom Ozric

............and put it this way - I was not too impressed when I heard I.T. back in 1987 - most of its songs were getting airplay, and only the 'Domino' epic was memorable for me.  When I heard the self-titled album at the same time in 1987, it was a different story.......haha heh, owww............
I will apologise for the offensive name I gave it, but I won't apologise for not liking the damn thing........

Thanks Tom, I appreciate that.  

and it was only the insult that I took offense at, not that you didn't like it  :)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2013 at 00:27
Originally posted by Roland113

. . . and finally . . .
 Regarding Invisible Touch, it is so incredibly easy to bash the album twenty five years after it was released.  In doing so, you are marginalizing the infuence that it had on modern prog.  Like it or not, it was probably the most infuential album in my life.
 


ok


Edited by jude111 - January 26 2013 at 01:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2013 at 23:02
I confess I cannot see the influence of I.T on modern prog either.   I think Rush and Queensryche were much bigger influences on modern prog.   
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