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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: stop the "Neo" prog label ?
    Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:01
Originally posted by rogerthat

 

Which is a 2008 album...and the point is?   Never said Gabriel doesn't get bad ratings on the website.   Just that Tonight is not sonically so far removed from Gabriel's 80s work.   Your reaction is probably much more to the fact that Genesis had embraced an 80s sound.   It was alright for Gabriel to do so, apparently.

Well, I like most of PG albums, but i don't like any 3 men Genesis album...Is that so wrong?

Iván

PS: I was making a point and I made it...If you don't like a non Prog album, it's wrong, you're an arrogant, a snob...Even here in prog Archives


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 11:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:04
Originally posted by rogerthat



And does it not suffice to that end to say that they dislike the album and would never want to listen to a new Genesis album again, and such?   Where do questions on artistic integrity come into the picture here?  Not giving one set of fans what they heard on previous albums is not a lack of artistic integrity.   If a band turn over musical decisions to the producer or the label, that's a lack of artistic integrity.  I believe Dave Mustaine did so at one point and admitted to it but Banks & Co have always stood by their music. 

It's my opinion and I stay behind it, i believe they sold.

It's what I believe..... Why can't I say it without being called names?


Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 11:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:05
Just let him say it for christs sake and move on.....
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:06
Indeed.   LOL   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:12
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Just let him say it for christs sake and move on.....

Thank you for letting me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 11:44
Neo exists, it's a label that's used world wide, and the IQ singer doesn't like it. Too bad for him, some things are hard to change, if changeable at all. That's what this topic is about - and twelve pages into this topic, we're on a road to nowhere again....
Even prog is rooted in the blues, at some point...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 12:22
Originally posted by Angelo

Neo exists, it's a label that's used world wide, and the IQ singer doesn't like it. Too bad for him, some things are hard to change, if changeable at all. That's what this topic is about - and twelve pages into this topic, we're on a road to nowhere again....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 12:39
Originally posted by Angelo

Neo exists, it's a label that's used world wide, and the IQ singer doesn't like it. Too bad for him, some things are hard to change, if changeable at all. That's what this topic is about - and twelve pages into this topic, we're on a road to nowhere again....

That's true

When i joined the site,. i had no respect for Neo prog.

But this has changed radically, some of my favorite Prog bands are precisely Neo, like Fish Marillion, Pendragon, Magenta, Gallahad, Collage...God, there's so much to find in Neo.

And if an artist doesn't like the label, bad luck, things are what they are, not we want them to be.

Iván
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 12:46
Whether the name Neo-Prog exists or not is irrelevant. We can change that if we wish. Consensus says we don't wish. 

Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 12:47
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:20
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M

Originally posted by rogerthat



And does it not suffice to that end to say that they dislike the album and would never want to listen to a new Genesis album again, and such?   Where do questions on artistic integrity come into the picture here?  Not giving one set of fans what they heard on previous albums is not a lack of artistic integrity.   If a band turn over musical decisions to the producer or the label, that's a lack of artistic integrity.  I believe Dave Mustaine did so at one point and admitted to it but Banks & Co have always stood by their music. 

It's my opinion and I stay behind it, i believe they sold.

It's what I believe..... Why can't I say it without being called names?


Iván



Often wonder this myself Ivan.  Everyone else around here is not bashful about putting forth their opinion.....when you do it people seem to have a canary. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:26
^Unless i missed it, he wasn't called any names.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:32
Zealot was one...but "names" aren't really the issue so much as the way he is treated. 

Ivan is polite and even tempered in the forums.  Those who serially oppose him, seemingly for sport, are the ones who cause these tiring tennis matches. 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:34
I guess he brings it on himself. And zealot is a pretty good description.

Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 13:37
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:34
Originally posted by Finnforest

Zealot was one...but "names" aren't really the issue so much as the way he is treated. 

Ivan is polite and even tempered in the forums.  Those who serially oppose him, seemingly for sport, are the ones who cause these tiring tennis matches. 

Thank you Finn

I started to think I was crazy and that nobody noticed that when I post, the same names appear always.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 13:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:42
You can't be talking about me surely?Confused

Now I'm getting paranoid...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 13:54
Okay, once again we seem to have a bashing session, so let me say one thing absolutely clearly (and add here that Ian was making the same point, very well, if I might add).

My comments about intellectually and artistically lazy bashing Genesis post Hackett were NOT aimed at Ivan, or indeed anyone else on a personal level. Okay? If I want to have a go at someone, I am more than capable of doing so, as you all know, and it has got me into more than a little bit of trouble lately. This was NOT a go.

This has always been my opinion about Genesis on this site. I have repeated it more than a few times. Indeed, I remember when I first joined the site, I made a similar comment, and received a very nice response from Raffaella, someone who I miss a great deal here.

The point that Tom made was a well made one. From my own experience, I can testify to it, and that is that many people latched onto the Gabriel era by listening to Collins era first.

The point I made was that we have a lot of Collins bashing here, and most of it is utterly without any intellectual credibility whatsoever. He "sold out". No he didn't. For a start, most of this era was a collaborative process, meaning that Banks and Rutherford were equally "culpable". Secondly, Genesis had a hit single with I Know What I Like on 1973, under Gabriel. Before that, they were massive in Italy and Belgium especially. They made hit records. They released singles. They wanted, and got, success. Good luck to them too.

Nobody is asking Ivan, or anyone else for that matter, to like Invisible Touch. I happen to rather enjoy it, not as much as Duke or Abacab, for example, but I still enjoy it. I do not expect others to. And this is not an accusation of zealotry, purity, or any other "ity". It is just my opinion, and it rattles me to see so many comments regarding this era, which I Love, without any other explanation that it is "pop", or a "sell out". As long as that opinion is expressed properly, what is wrong with that?

I repeat. My comments were not directed at any particular individual. It was a global statement expressing my personal opinion.

I was looking at Progressive Ears last night, for a few hours. Also, the DPRP site, which is wonderful. The way things are going here, I might well spend a lot more time there (and, yes, I do accept my personal responsibility in that).


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 14:10
Sigh.

Shall I move this to the children's forum?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 14:16
Originally posted by Tony R

Sigh.

Shall I move this to the children's forum?

Hang on a second, Tony. I have just sent a PM to Jim on similar lines. I have been accused of something which was rather unfair and most definitely wrong, and I have the right to say so. I was NOT having a go at anyone in particular, and I was accused of this.

I am getting rather bloody fed up with this. That is not acting like a child. If you want me to, then I will.

Am I not able to express my opinion on Genesis, the site, or anything else without being accused of being personal and nasty? I wouldn't mind so much if that is what I was doing. And, yes, whilst I have made personal remarks regarding my view of the site (although always anonymised), the comments made here about Genesis were absolutely, utterly, representing  my opinion about Prog Archives as a collective, not Ivan, or any other individual.

I am not a nasty person, and I am beginning to feel as if this is how you lot regard me.

Well, now I will make a pitch for the children's forum. Bollocks to the lot of you.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 14:18
Tony, it's not just this thread.  Certain people have a go at Ivan almost any time they see fit and I'm tired of it, so I briefly said as much.  I don't care what you do with this thread.  I said all I had to say here and in the equally divisive "Revolution" thread. 



Edited by Finnforest - January 27 2013 at 14:27


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2013 at 14:33
Originally posted by Finnforest

Tony, it's not just this thread.  Certain people have a go at Ivan almost any time they see fit and I'm tired of it, so I briefly said as much.  I don't care what you do with this thread.  I said all I had to say here and in the equally divisive "Revolution" thread. 


I have not had a go at Ivan. I repeat, my comments about Genesis and intellectually lazy had bugger all to do with him. Believe  me, if they were, I would be more than happy to say so.




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