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lazland View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 14:23
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.

You would also, I think ,enjoy Twelfth Night. I came across IQ almost by chance, as they were mentioned in an article blathering on about Marillion being the natural successors to Genesis.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 14:35
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.

You would also, I think ,enjoy Twelfth Night. I came across IQ almost by chance, as they were mentioned in an article blathering on about Marillion being the natural successors to Genesis.

Another band I missed out on. For some reason I wasn't aware of Prog New Wave and was only aware of Marillion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 14:50
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.

You would also, I think ,enjoy Twelfth Night. I came across IQ almost by chance, as they were mentioned in an article blathering on about Marillion being the natural successors to Genesis.

Another band I missed out on. For some reason I wasn't aware of Prog New Wave and was only aware of Marillion.

It was an exciting time, and, actually, still is, because most of them are still creating exciting and original music. Barely any of it neo, of course............Damn, there I go again!LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 15:00
It's only my personal opinion, but Frequency is better than any Marillion's releasem and I have discovered IQ only recently thanks to PA
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 15:06
Yes, `Frequency' is a wonderful album! Very melodic and grand, and an all-time best vocal from Nicholls! He's really such a charismatic and distinctive vocalist.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 15:12
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

It's only my personal opinion, but Frequency is better than any Marillion's releasem and I have discovered IQ only recently thanks to PA

Well, that is your opinion, and you are, of course, perfectly entitled to it. I would venture to disagree, but, in truth, it is absolutely and utterly impossible to compare the two bands. As I have said before, Marillion's output, certainly since Season's End, has been an extremely eclectic mix,and they have moved so far away from those early days. IQ have as well, but not, IMO, in anywhere near the same fashion, and I say that as a fan of the band.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 15:17
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Yes, `Frequency' is a wonderful album! Very melodic and grand, and an all-time best vocal from Nicholls! He's really such a charismatic and distinctive vocalist.

I absolutely agree. Nicholls work on this was incredible.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 19:31
I have never heard Harvest of Souls but I certainly don't think Grendel is a copy of Supper's Ready.  Leave alone Grendel, some people have attempted to force down my throat the belief that Marillion themselves are just a clone of Genesis and even pointing out the influence of Floyd or Rush doesn't get them to budge one bit (though they seemingly expect me to buy their position!).   I tend to agree with Hercules - in the same forum that we are constantly told not to berate certain bands with the retro prog label, there is blatant bias against the original neo prog bands which is all but passed off as the truth that 'only deluded fans would deny' or such. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 20:38
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I loathe the continual sniping at Genesis post 1978. They gave me a lot of great music which I continue to enjoy to this day. Actually, I find that sniping rather intellectually lazy, given that all three of them were responsible for the 
latter albums. Not just Collins.


What about Grendel and Harvest of Souls? Both are clearly influenced by Genesis, of that there is no doubt. Actually, I find the two tracks in question to be miles apart in terms of quality and production values. Grendel was the b side of Market Square Heroes. It was a statement by Marillion of their influences, but, in truth, it doesn't even begin to compare with the band's latter output, even with Fish, let alone Hogarth.


IQ have never hidden the origins of their influence. However, I tend to agree with Ian here. It is plain that Harvest of Souls is influenced by "classic" Genesis. It is probably my most played track by the band, and no matter how many times I listen to it, I could never, ever, state that it is a Suppers Ready "copy". It stands alone fine as a fine piece of music in its own right, and I love it even more for that. In other words, they took a basic template, and stamped their own authority on it, which is as good a definition of neo as I could hope to give. 


Great post although Orford at the time was not happy about the comparisons being drawn between IQ's music and Genesis. He actually stated it was a complete coincidence because IQ had exactly the same make up in terms of numbers and instruments being played. I found it a bit fishy at the time and still do tbh.But  IQ are and will remain one of my favourite bands. BTW they followed their own template on Frequency and it worked brilliantly.

I haven't been really crazy about Pendragon, so I think I'll give IQ a chance next. Tales from the Lush Attic seems to be a widespread favorite.

I remember a radio interview with Marillion in the 80s, Fish and the keyboardist. A caller asked them why they sounded so much like Genesis. I thought it was strange how defensive they were about it. I tend to think if they were more forthright it would have been more cathartic for everyone, but in playing it down they sounded like politicians playing an off note. Personally, I don't think the differences that existed between them and Genesis were for the better. I kept waiting for some sort of crazy eccentric instrumental piece from Marillion. I was really into the Waiting Room and other such oddities at the time. I was kind of disgusted by the time of Misplaced Childhood that they hadn't put a single instrumental on record. The only purpose for the music was to set the mood for the vocal. They didn't have any sort of instrumental excursions live either the one time I saw them. I haven't a clue what they're like post-Fish.

Edited by HackettFan - January 21 2013 at 20:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 01:52
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.
I went through a few ups and downs with them in the eighties. I loved The Wake when it came out and couldn't wait for Nomzamo. What a let down that was at the time lacking the power and intensity that I had come to expect (although nowadays I like several songs on it and have a lot of respect for Paul Menel). I fell out of love with IQ at that point and forgot about them until about 1995 when they released Subterannea. I stumbled across it by accident in a record shop and noticed the interesting artwork and the fact that Nicholls was back. That rekindled my interest. Got to seem them play the whole of that album at the now defunct Astoria around 1999 and still remains one of favourite gigs ever.
If ELP had never existed they would be vying with Rush as my favourite band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 01:56
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I loathe the continual sniping at Genesis post 1978. They gave me a lot of great music which I continue to enjoy to this day. Actually, I find that sniping rather intellectually lazy, given that all three of them were responsible for the 
latter albums. Not just Collins.

What about Grendel and Harvest of Souls? Both are clearly influenced by Genesis, of that there is no doubt. Actually, I find the two tracks in question to be miles apart in terms of quality and production values. Grendel was the b side of Market Square Heroes. It was a statement by Marillion of their influences, but, in truth, it doesn't even begin to compare with the band's latter output, even with Fish, let alone Hogarth.

IQ have never hidden the origins of their influence. However, I tend to agree with Ian here. It is plain that Harvest of Souls is influenced by "classic" Genesis. It is probably my most played track by the band, and no matter how many times I listen to it, I could never, ever, state that it is a Suppers Ready "copy". It stands alone fine as a fine piece of music in its own right, and I love it even more for that. In other words, they took a basic template, and stamped their own authority on it, which is as good a definition of neo as I could hope to give. 
Great post although Orford at the time was not happy about the comparisons being drawn between IQ's music and Genesis. He actually stated it was a complete coincidence because IQ had exactly the same make up in terms of numbers and instruments being played. I found it a bit fishy at the time and still do tbh.But  IQ are and will remain one of my favourite bands. BTW they followed their own template on Frequency and it worked brilliantly.

And this is a great postClap I could not agree with you more re Frequency, which is a stunningly original piece of work. I am really looking forward to the follow up.

Can I also say that Orford's The Old Road remains one of my favourite albums of all time? I do so much hope that the retirement will be temporary. Obviously, a return to IQ will not happen, but there is surely room for both in this musical world?
The Old Road is brilliant as is Classical Music and Popular Songs.  Martin needed to spread his wings but having done that perhaps there was nowhere to go? At least IQ paid the bills (or some of them) while I'm not sure how the solo albums did commercially.
I suspect he will return at some point. Another solo album must be a real possibility and I can't imagine he has stopped writing music altogether. The guy is just too talented.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 02:00
Richard, how do you feel about the IQ/Menel album `Are You Sitting Comfortably?' album. I really quite enjoy it, a nice mix of undemanding prog sophistication and pleasant adult pop! No classic, but a decent album to my ears anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 02:05
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I loathe the continual sniping at Genesis post 1978. They gave me a lot of great music which I continue to enjoy to this day. Actually, I find that sniping rather intellectually lazy, given that all three of them were responsible for the 
latter albums. Not just Collins.


What about Grendel and Harvest of Souls? Both are clearly influenced by Genesis, of that there is no doubt. Actually, I find the two tracks in question to be miles apart in terms of quality and production values. Grendel was the b side of Market Square Heroes. It was a statement by Marillion of their influences, but, in truth, it doesn't even begin to compare with the band's latter output, even with Fish, let alone Hogarth.


IQ have never hidden the origins of their influence. However, I tend to agree with Ian here. It is plain that Harvest of Souls is influenced by "classic" Genesis. It is probably my most played track by the band, and no matter how many times I listen to it, I could never, ever, state that it is a Suppers Ready "copy". It stands alone fine as a fine piece of music in its own right, and I love it even more for that. In other words, they took a basic template, and stamped their own authority on it, which is as good a definition of neo as I could hope to give. 


Great post although Orford at the time was not happy about the comparisons being drawn between IQ's music and Genesis. He actually stated it was a complete coincidence because IQ had exactly the same make up in terms of numbers and instruments being played. I found it a bit fishy at the time and still do tbh.But  IQ are and will remain one of my favourite bands. BTW they followed their own template on Frequency and it worked brilliantly.

I haven't been really crazy about Pendragon, so I think I'll give IQ a chance next. Tales from the Lush Attic seems to be a widespread favorite.

I remember a radio interview with Marillion in the 80s, Fish and the keyboardist. A caller asked them why they sounded so much like Genesis. I thought it was strange how defensive they were about it. I tend to think if they were more forthright it would have been more cathartic for everyone, but in playing it down they sounded like politicians playing an off note. Personally, I don't think the differences that existed between them and Genesis were for the better. I kept waiting for some sort of crazy eccentric instrumental piece from Marillion. I was really into the Waiting Room and other such oddities at the time. I was kind of disgusted by the time of Misplaced Childhood that they hadn't put a single instrumental on record. The only purpose for the music was to set the mood for the vocal. They didn't have any sort of instrumental excursions live either the one time I saw them. I haven't a clue what they're like post-Fish.
There is a lovely remix of Tales From The Lush Attic just released that I would recommend. The Wake is more closer to what people think is 'neo prog. so may want to approach that with caution but certainly give Tales a go and see how you digest it. The Last Human Gateway is one of my favourite prog tracks of any era. Totally original and unique peice and played with a lot more flair than you might be expecting.
As far as Marillion goes I prefer the Hogath era especially Marbles, Seasons End and Sounds That Can't Be Made. That said the DVD of Marillion playing in Germany (Lorely) just after Clutching at Straws is superb but I for some reason I could never connect with their studio albums which seemed a bit lacking in excitement. I suspect Marillion (with Fish) were much better as a live band. Inititially they built their reputation playing festivals established a fanatical following that has endured to this day.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 02:08
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Richard, how do you feel about the IQ/Menel album `Are You Sitting Comfortably?' album. I really quite enjoy it, a nice mix of undemanding prog sophistication and pleasant adult pop! No classic, but a decent album to my ears anyway.
I like it very much and probably in my top five IQ albums. Menel is a very clever lyricist. I bought his solo album that was recently released and that is very good also (although not prog in any sense). IQ during the Menel era were a bit like It Bites. Nice mix of prog and pop as you say. There is definetly room for it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 07:06
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.
I went through a few ups and downs with them in the eighties. I loved The Wake when it came out and couldn't wait for Nomzamo. What a let down that was at the time lacking the power and intensity that I had come to expect (although nowadays I like several songs on it and have a lot of respect for Paul Menel). I fell out of love with IQ at that point and forgot about them until about 1995 when they released Subterannea. I stumbled across it by accident in a record shop and noticed the interesting artwork and the fact that Nicholls was back. That rekindled my interest. Got to seem them play the whole of that album at the now defunct Astoria around 1999 and still remains one of favourite gigs ever.
If ELP had never existed they would be vying with Rush as my favourite band.
I would mirror this musical Journey - I missed the phase of of the greats (Live) except that I went to see Genesis in 1977 in London - absolutely amazing gig and Hackett has been a hero of mine ever since. But , with Phase II I could actually go and see prog rock bands in incredibly small & intimate gigs, Pendragon, IQ, Twelfth Night, Marillion, Pallas - all virtually unknown in main-stream music - were all dismissed as Genesis/Yes clones......I have to say that IQ is the greatest of these phase II bands by a country Mile...with pallas/Twelfth Night and Pendragon in the second tier...Marillion third....Script for a Jesters Tear...was the first massive disappointment - because I had demo tapes and seen live the proper versions of the tracks that made it onto the first release and marillion RUINED all those tracks in my eyes - possibly because they had to water down the prog for more accessible tunes. the same happened with Pallas....they actualy deny that they performed a 45 minute version of the atlantis suite at the manchester Gallery - far & above the best live performance by any band I've ever seen......
But IQ - stuck to their guns more or less - but when I had the opportunity to talk in depth about music with Mike Holmes and Martin Orford at a party held by a band called Moriarty - they spoke mainly of the influences of Genesis/Yes/Camel/ELP - but they thought they could blend those influences and produce stuff that was fresh...and I must say that they have an output that is the best of Phase II/III prog - and I would agree that Frequecy and dark Matter are bloody brilliant examples of phase II/III symphonic prog.
Peace.


Edited by M27Barney - January 22 2013 at 07:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 07:16
Great story Barney, thanks for sharing!

The part where you said `they spoke mainly of the influences of Genesis/Yes/Camel/ELP - but they thought they could blend those influences and produce stuff that was fresh...'

This is exactly what IQ have achieved, by constantly tweaking and redefining their sound, they've produced a body of work that is more or less of a very superior quality, so many top quality releases. Some people don't appreciate the Menel era, but I like that just fine. So we therefore have a band with not a bad release!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 07:34
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Richard, how do you feel about the IQ/Menel album `Are You Sitting Comfortably?' album. I really quite enjoy it, a nice mix of undemanding prog sophistication and pleasant adult pop! No classic, but a decent album to my ears anyway.
I like it very much and probably in my top five IQ albums. Menel is a very clever lyricist. I bought his solo album that was recently released and that is very good also (although not prog in any sense). IQ during the Menel era were a bit like It Bites. Nice mix of prog and pop as you say. There is definetly room for it!

Yes, a very good album.
I found it pretty sensational when it came out.
I still like it and it's in my personal IQ top 3 even.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 08:06
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

IQ are one of my favourite discovery's of the of the  last 15 years. It is such a shame I never heard of them  in the eighties.
I went through a few ups and downs with them in the eighties. I loved The Wake when it came out and couldn't wait for Nomzamo. What a let down that was at the time lacking the power and intensity that I had come to expect (although nowadays I like several songs on it and have a lot of respect for Paul Menel). I fell out of love with IQ at that point and forgot about them until about 1995 when they released Subterannea. I stumbled across it by accident in a record shop and noticed the interesting artwork and the fact that Nicholls was back. That rekindled my interest. Got to seem them play the whole of that album at the now defunct Astoria around 1999 and still remains one of favourite gigs ever.
If ELP had never existed they would be vying with Rush as my favourite band.
I would mirror this musical Journey - I missed the phase of of the greats (Live) except that I went to see Genesis in 1977 in London - absolutely amazing gig and Hackett has been a hero of mine ever since. But , with Phase II I could actually go and see prog rock bands in incredibly small & intimate gigs, Pendragon, IQ, Twelfth Night, Marillion, Pallas - all virtually unknown in main-stream music - were all dismissed as Genesis/Yes clones......I have to say that IQ is the greatest of these phase II bands by a country Mile...with pallas/Twelfth Night and Pendragon in the second tier...Marillion third....Script for a Jesters Tear...was the first massive disappointment - because I had demo tapes and seen live the proper versions of the tracks that made it onto the first release and marillion RUINED all those tracks in my eyes - possibly because they had to water down the prog for more accessible tunes. the same happened with Pallas....they actualy deny that they performed a 45 minute version of the atlantis suite at the manchester Gallery - far & above the best live performance by any band I've ever seen......
But IQ - stuck to their guns more or less - but when I had the opportunity to talk in depth about music with Mike Holmes and Martin Orford at a party held by a band called Moriarty - they spoke mainly of the influences of Genesis/Yes/Camel/ELP - but they thought they could blend those influences and produce stuff that was fresh...and I must say that they have an output that is the best of Phase II/III prog - and I would agree that Frequecy and dark Matter are bloody brilliant examples of phase II/III symphonic prog.
Peace.
By coincidence I have copies of the Marillion demos too and I have rated Script with two stars only. I had them from a relative of a friend who was back from UK. I don't remember the year but Fugazi was not released yet. And I totally agree. Also the original version of Three Boats Down From The Candy is a great song in the demo and massacred later.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 12:58
It was the early eighties - possibly 1983/84 that I obtained the Demos - I think their music was also aired on the BBC's Friday Rock Show by the late Tommy Vance. Three boats down was a superb track live and Marillion didn't do it justice when they recorded it for a single.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 13:03
That high-pithced guitar "E" in the instrumental part was hypnotic. None of the official versions released later has the same sound. Unfortunately what I have is a "mono" tape dubbed from the demo that I actually borrowed from that friend.The tape had: Grendel, Three Boats Down and Garden Party. I started buying all the Marillion's releases to find those songs and I had to wait for B'sides Themselves to have an original copy of Grendel.
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