harmonic language in prog

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 Atavachron wrote:

 aldri7 wrote:

 Atavachron wrote:

 ^ Good points, music is relative to the other music around it, but still the question is begged;  why do certain melodies and chords, whatever the context, evoke a particular response?   Is it a vibrational relationship with our ears and brain; Is it learned or automatic; etc.

I have wondered that with respect to the Lydian mode and nostalgia, because nostalgia is not something that you can easily define. Its not an emotion really. But anyway, to find the answer, maybe in this case its subjective and based on the experiences of those that came of age at a certain time and place back in the 50's or so - and then went on to compose music for film. If at some point growing up they were exposed to that mode, then hearing it now might tend to elicit nostalgia. But for someone growing up in a different time and place, I don't see how they would tend to make that connection.

  -  Yeah, no, I think it must be deeper, and not necessarily connected to any memories, even longterm race-mems.   It is an immediate, visceral response one seems to get regardless of culture, age, or musical exposure.

Probably the biggest mystery then is why a minor third is considered "sad" while a major third is "happy". This seems to be pretty universal, and so I wonder if it is a vibrational thing - I'm guessing a major third is more consonant  i.e. easier on the ears, and so when they hear a minor third, the ears wants to convert it or resolve it to a major third which it can't. Because it can't, the effect on you, the owner of those ears, is sadness :)   

  -  That's a reasonable theory.   But what of the many other, more complex feelings stirred by the music of Delius, Prokofiev, Brahms, and Gershwin?   And of course into later scoring masters as Bernard Herrmann, David Shire, and John Williams.

Regarding the Lydian mode and nostalgia, I feel the nostalgia too but at the same time I consider the possibility that I might be biased given my age, etc. So I would really need to ask another person - someone in their 30's or something. I really don't know how they perceive it. Or someone from another culture. Because nostalgia is a complex phenomenon and its triggered by one's prior history with similar sights, sounds, scents, etc. In other words, if one has no prior history hearing the Lydian mode, I guess it doesn't make sense to me that it would trigger nostalgia when they hear it today. But I could be wrong. If I am, I'd sure like to know what the mechanism is thats going on in the brain. But I will say this - again, there is that sharped fourth in the Lydian mode that begs for resolution to the fifth. Its like a yearning. The ear yearns for resolution like maybe it yearns to resolve a minor third into a major third. Is that "yearning" similar to a yearning for ones childhood? Oh God - see what complex creatures we are!  Anyway, I think that you can find this discussed with reference to other modes as well, and I do know that each one is associated with a unique set of emotional qualities. Its also true for different keys.  

As for your other point, I flashed back to Bartok and the French composers. I can't describe the way that that music makes me feel. We are all connected to each other in ways we can't even imagine. But that music opens up channels and memories that are mostly buried now. So all I can say is our brain connects music with all of our other sensory experiences meaning that it can trigger sights, smells, emotions, etc. I mean, I am not French nor have I ever lived in France, but French classical music throughout the 20th century influenced so many and affected them so much that hearing it triggers stuff in me that I can't even describe. Its like triggering other's experiences which maybe I absorbed vicariously through TV and film?

aldri7