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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
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 Posted: February 13 2013 at 19:37 |
Really, can we get more pedantic about something? The big five/six/first tier is Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, ELP, JT, KC and add Rush from the next generation to that list. I voted for Gentle Giant and I like them more than every band but PF and KC from that list. Yes, it is not universal but it is understood widely enough. May I suggest that it is more productive to first ask Prog Traveller what he means by second tier instead of taking shots at him for doing so? If you agree that second tier is 'relative, then he is as much allowed to have his own understanding of it as you are. For heavens sake, find something better to rant about.
Edited by rogerthat - February 13 2013 at 20:14
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 20:44 |
 zeqexes wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
bytor2112 wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier 
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I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.
Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5. |
JT??? Sure they're good but really
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It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band. |
Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Horizons
Collaborator
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Points: 16952
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 20:58 |
Kayo Dot should be first tier. Also The Who should be listed here because they are second tier music players. I can't wait till we get to 4th tier!
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 21:38 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
zeqexes wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
bytor2112 wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier
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I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.
Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5. |
JT??? Sure they're good but really
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It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band. |
Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.
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Sorry but Tull have not sold more albums than Yes. You're going to need to provide some proof if you insist that they have. JT only have one multi platinum album(3 x platinum): "aqualung." Other than that they have about ten gold albums. Yes have two multi platinum albums(Fragile and 90125 with 90125 being three times platinum). Other than that they have 5 platinum albums(including classic Yes and Yessongs). Of course all of those platinum albums also went gold.
Edited by Prog_Traveller - February 13 2013 at 21:38
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Horizons
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 21:42 |
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JT haven't sold more than Yes. Correct.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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thellama73
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 22:02 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
zeqexes wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
bytor2112 wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier
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I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.
Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5. |
JT??? Sure they're good but really
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It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band. |
Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.
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Sorry but Tull have not sold more albums than Yes. You're going to need to provide some proof if you insist that they have.
JT only have one multi platinum album(3 x platinum): "aqualung." Other than that they have about ten gold albums. Yes have two multi platinum albums(Fragile and 90125 with 90125 being three times platinum). Other than that they have 5 platinum albums(including classic Yes and Yessongs). Of course all of those platinum albums also went gold.
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I can't find any official source, but the highest number I can find for Yes' worldwide sales is 50 million, whereas Jethro Tull has sold more than 60 million, so it seems you are wrong.
Edited by thellama73 - February 13 2013 at 22:05
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Barbu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: infinity
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Points: 30845
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 22:10 |
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There's truth in numbers,
There's truth in scales,
There's truth in science,
And truth in sales.
And when the sweetness,
Comes to an end,
You try to bargain,
To live again.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5091
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Posted: February 13 2013 at 22:14 |
Roland113 wrote:
Roland113 wrote:
No real surprise on my vote, chalk up one for "The Flower Kings".
The one thing I'm curious about is your mention of 'Le Orme' and it seemed that you were saying that they're considered first tier. So here's my question, this is a band that I've never listened to, who's a fan, where should I start and are they an 'important' band.
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taps the mic . . . "hello . . . umm, hello" looks at it, "umm, is this thing on?
So here's my question, this (Le Orme) is a band that I've never listened to, who's a fan, where should I start and are they an 'important' band. |
Uomo Di Pezza, Felona E Sorona and Contrappunti are must-haves if you like symph / RPI.
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dr prog
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Location: Melbourne
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 01:01 |
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Gentle giant is the definition of prog. They are first tier.
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dr prog
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Location: Melbourne
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 01:06 |
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Tull are the best band on earth.
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ten years after
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Location: Australia
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 01:42 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Well I know. I hear you. But I'm going by the thought of if I asked some guy off the street which ones would they have heard of. The ones the average Joe would know about would be first tier. Plus many of these bands never got the attention they deserved. ANd before some of you say the average Joe would know Kansas that might be true but most people think of them as classic rock and not prog. Only us freaks know the truth about these bands. 
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But the average Joe would think of Genesis as a Pop band (or Phil Collins' backing band).
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 01:59 |
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Happy the Man from the list, Saga and Banco as well. Not mentioned: Morgan. |
Morgan weren't mentioned because they aren't second tier. THey might not even be third tier. Geez, if I included them I'd have to include A LOT of other bands including Greenslade, Fruupp and Curved Air just to mention a few.One band who I really should have included was Triumvirat. Oh well.
Those who want to see a big list of old bands and albums from the seventies go here www.progressiverock.com |
Oh you wanna play hardball-- Gentle Giant second tier? Bullsh*t; they're often mentioned in the same breath as ELP and Genesis. |
You can play any ball you want but you lose no matter what because this is my poll!!!
GG are actually more popular in prog circles than ELP are now but so what? That's not the point. I'm going by album sales here and reputation and over all popularity. Ask any regular guy off the street if they have heard of ELP compared to GG. Bam.
The thing is if I included GG in a top tier poll then I'd also have to include Camel, Marillion, Kansas, VDGG, Caravan, Focus, Renaissance and on and on. GG aren't much more popular or accepted than those bands even in prog circles. If you look on here VDGG have albums with more ratings than GG so ultimately GG get lumped in with second tier. Live with it. 
Anyway, no need to get flustered over this anyway since it's all subjective. I do admit there's a thin line in terms of popularity between King Crimson and GG and GG and ELP or whatever but also between GG and VDGG and several other bands. I had to make a decision and since GG although somewhat popular in their day never got HUGE the way the big named bands did I decided to keep them in second tier. I could have put Crimson in this list too or even Dream Theater but I didn't. YOu can do your own poll and do things your way next time. Really it's not that big a deal.
As for Morgan, I honestly don't think they are anywhere near as well known as the bands I listed or mentioned. I will look into them though since apparently they put out some fine symphonic prog. Maybe you can do a third tier poll with them Druid, Greenslade, Finch, Egg, Fruupp, FM, Earth and Fire, Trace, Grobschnitt, Novalis, Hoelderlin, New Trolls, Le Orme, Atoll, Pulsar, Asia Minor, Shylock, Acqua Fragile, Comus, Supersister, Moving Gelatine Plates, Bubu, Area, Univers Zero, Granada, Triana, Kaipa, Anglagard and tons of other bands with apparently solid albums. In my view, Morgan fall alongside those bands as far as reputation(if they're lucky)and not in second tier. Anyway, like I said this is all subjective and all just my opinion so really no need to get upset about it. |
See you went just a bit too far here-- I was with you for the first few paragraphs but when you start talking about "third tier" why not get into "fourth" and "fifth tier" ? It's not that I haven't used the term myself, in fact I have in a review or two, but I would never say it about Gentle Giant; it wouldn't be credible. ELP weren't first tier Prog, they were first tier Rock-- same with Pink Floyd and Yes and Jethro Tull.
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HannesHolmqvist
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 03:21 |
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That would be VdGG, I rate them above all but Crimson.
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irrelevant
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 08:33 |
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Let's do the next tier!
Edited by irrelevant - February 14 2013 at 08:34
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The Doctor
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Joined: June 23 2005
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 08:37 |
ten years after wrote:
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Well I know. I hear you. But I'm going by the thought of if I asked some guy off the street which ones would they have heard of. The ones the average Joe would know about would be first tier. Plus many of these bands never got the attention they deserved. ANd before some of you say the average Joe would know Kansas that might be true but most people think of them as classic rock and not prog. Only us freaks know the truth about these bands.
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But the average Joe would think of Genesis as a Pop band (or Phil Collins' backing band). |
Back in the mid 80's, I heard a radio announcer announce them as "Phil Collins and Genesis". I bet Tony would have loved that. 
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Roland113
Special Collaborator
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 09:34 |
Gerinski wrote:
Roland113 wrote:
Roland113 wrote:
No real surprise on my vote, chalk up one for "The Flower Kings".
The one thing I'm curious about is your mention of 'Le Orme' and it seemed that you were saying that they're considered first tier. So here's my question, this is a band that I've never listened to, who's a fan, where should I start and are they an 'important' band.
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taps the mic . . . "hello . . . umm, hello" looks at it, "umm, is this thing on?
So here's my question, this (Le Orme) is a band that I've never listened to, who's a fan, where should I start and are they an 'important' band. |
Uomo Di Pezza, Felona E Sorona and Contrappunti are must-haves if you like symph / RPI. |
Thanks Gerinski,
Logan and The Doctor also recommended Felona E Sorona . . . sadly, unless it was translated or something, that was one of the few that wasn't available on Spotify. I did give Contrappunti and a few others a run yesterday afternoon. It was good stuff, it was background music at work though, so I didn't focus enough on it to have a well developed opinion as of yet. Thanks for your help (all three of you).
Tom
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presdoug
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Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8068
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 10:07 |
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^Collage is also a must, in my books
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 13:36 |
thellama73 wrote:
Prog_Traveller wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
zeqexes wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
bytor2112 wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
VDGG and Gentle Giant aren't second tier
|
I tend to think of them as second tier, where as bands such as King Crimson, Yes, Jethro Tull, ELP, Pink Floyd, and Genesis (the big 6) would be 1st tier. Though I love GG and VDGG a lot more than some of the big six bands.
Anyways I'm voting for Camel, a band that is certainly in my top 5. |
JT??? Sure they're good but really
|
It's not up to his opinion what's first-tier and second-tier, it's famousness. Tull are a well known rock group that are a lot more famous than Gentle Giant and VdGG, thus making them first-tier. I'm not at all saying that JT are any better than GG or VdGG, but they're just a more popular progressive rock band. |
Tull has sold over 60 million albums. That's more than Yes, ELP or King Crimson.
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Sorry but Tull have not sold more albums than Yes. You're going to need to provide some proof if you insist that they have.
JT only have one multi platinum album(3 x platinum): "aqualung." Other than that they have about ten gold albums. Yes have two multi platinum albums(Fragile and 90125 with 90125 being three times platinum). Other than that they have 5 platinum albums(including classic Yes and Yessongs). Of course all of those platinum albums also went gold.
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I can't find any official source, but the highest number I can find for Yes' worldwide sales is 50 million, whereas Jethro Tull has sold more than 60 million, so it seems you are wrong.
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SEEMS being the key word here. As you said you can't find any OFFICIAL source so until you can you can't say I'm wrong. The numbers just don't add up. If you are talking US sales only then Yes definitely have Tull beat. Since I only live in the US any other numbers are irrelevant to me.
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Prog_Traveller
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Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 13:40 |
ten years after wrote:
Prog_Traveller wrote:
Well I know. I hear you. But I'm going by the thought of if I asked some guy off the street which ones would they have heard of. The ones the average Joe would know about would be first tier. Plus many of these bands never got the attention they deserved. ANd before some of you say the average Joe would know Kansas that might be true but most people think of them as classic rock and not prog. Only us freaks know the truth about these bands.
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But the average Joe would think of Genesis as a Pop band (or Phil Collins' backing band). |
Maybe but at least they would know who they are. Most people would NOT know who GG are. I was talking to some guy once. Or maybe I should say he was talking to me. Anyway, he said I was a "gentle giant." I asked him if he heard of the band called Gentle Giant. He said no and quickly changed the subject.
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Prog_Traveller
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1474
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Posted: February 14 2013 at 13:43 |
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See you went just a bit too far here--
No because I was just making a point AND just stating MY opinion. If anything you went too far by saying I went too far. ;)
Anyway, GG first tier but Yes, ELP and PF rock and not first tier prog? REALLY?
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Who is your favorite second tier prog band?