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The Role of Virtuosity in Progressive Music

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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Role of Virtuosity in Progressive Music
    Posted: May 07 2013 at 11:26
Originally posted by twosteves

Originally posted by dr wu23

Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by pitfall




Could you please give me some examples of these frequent occasions when Howe's electric playing sounds jarring? I've never come across it myself.
I find it difficult to accept that you have ever really listened to his playing!


Eh, any number of his faster leads with Yes but CTTE if you want one example.  Please read what I said with context - though I didn't specify it, I was comparing his approach with Hackett. Yes, compared to Hackett, I do find Howe's electric playing pretty jarring, the more so as he gets faster while Hackett is very smooth and makes me oblivious to how fast he might be playing. 
 
I was thinking about Howe's leads and his playing just yesterday and I agree with you that Hackett and others are much 'smoother' and more melodic at times. There are leads by Howe here and there on all the best known lp's by Yes that sound 'jarring ' to me also...but it fits somehow with their overall approach.
--

for me jarring is the wrong word --but I do know what you mean--his playing is more chunky (and funky) and guitarly if you will, where Hackett is coming up with his own smooth guitar sound---what I love about real artists like these two--is you give them a paint brush (the guitar) and they both paint in the same genre (prog) and they come up with completely different masterpiece's. 
 
I'm a Yes and Genesis fan......and both guitarists are unique but at times I want to change the way Howe's guitar sounds. For me it's probably the' trebly' tone he uses.
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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2013 at 11:29
^ Well, he grew up on RnR, so I guess that's wear he got the idea for the trebly tone and didn't go for something heavier.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 08:30
Hi,
 
Kinda scary thought to think that even pop music does not have any virtuosity in it ... which would beg the question ... why we buying it, then?
 
There has to be more to it, somewhere!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 08:31
^ Why is it a scary thought?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 09:04
Originally posted by moshkito

Hi,
 
Kinda scary thought to think that even pop music does not have any virtuosity in it ... which would beg the question ... why we buying it, then?
 
There has to be more to it, somewhere!
What are you saying - no pop music has any virtuosity in it? We should only buy music that does?
Nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 22:14
Does DUKE have virtuosity in it? I kind of think it does. It's a very accessable prog album...pop like at times.   
Over many years exploring the world of Dark-Gothic Progressive Rock/Metal has been an unbelievably great experience. Colour me Goth all over! I'm hooked.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2013 at 00:21
Just found two counterexamples to a suggestion made earlier that virtuosity is more relevant in entertainment than art.   Um, One More Red Nightmare for Ian McDonald's saxophone work and Dancing with the moonlit knight for Collins's work on drums!   Esp the former....he's not really trying to play blinding fast but it is certainly well beyond the reach of a mediocre musician.   And at the same time it's very expressive.  Parts, if not of all the expression actually come from his improvisational approach where he contrasts sections with lots of notes played quickly with ones where he just 'lazily' lays down a few spaced out notes.  It's not as such a particularly different approach from jazz, much of which would be considered art rather than just entertainment music. 


Edited by rogerthat - May 11 2013 at 00:22
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TGM: Orb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2013 at 01:03


I suppose my main question for the thread is whether you'd want anyone else singing and playing that...

And similarly,




Edited by TGM: Orb - May 11 2013 at 01:04
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2013 at 01:48
Originally posted by progbethyname

Does DUKE have virtuosity in it? I kind of think it does. It's a very accessable prog album...pop like at times.   


I don't know about Duke but Toto did have plenty of virtuosity and were a top pop group in the 80s.   I think at least until the advent of boybands and girlgroups Dead- i.e. Spice Girls, NOT Bangles - pop could be pretty smart and sharp.   There are plenty of subtle examples of instrumental virtuosity but skill used to be pretty important in pop vocals.  Here's Patti LaBelle and Mike Bolton (filling in at the last minute for Levi Stubbs, hard to tell unless you are already informed of this) ripping it onstage:




Edited by rogerthat - May 11 2013 at 01:49
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Xonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2013 at 15:37
It's a great advantage to bands (such as Steve Howe's excellent guitar playing in Yes Cool) but not really essential and as some bands have proven you can have lots of musicians with different knowledges on genres and sometimes they can click together and make great music Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2013 at 22:48
It can't be beyond the realms of possibility that the greatest public speaker in the world has precisely zero opinions of their own? Eloquence is not tantamount to 'smart'' e.g there are those who can express their ignorance brilliantly and very entertainingly...
'The incense burned away and the stench began to rise' (Pete Townshend)
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