Good prog band, bad drummer

rogerthat wrote: ^^^  Ah, but he does make full use of the snare even here at around 4:20.  Pedro can be pretty opinionated but I wouldn't discount his powers of observation.  And something Mason achieves on the Live at Pompeii version that I didn't hear here is....he actually creates a sense of melody on drums from around 3:40 that blends very well with the 'actual' melody being played at that point.  I am not going to say it is impossible for some other drummer to produce that effect but it is certainly something I've heard rarely, if at all, from any drummer.   I had never noticed this before but I was piqued by Pedro's comments on Set Controls and wanted to find out for myself.  I also notice that Mason plays very lightly, though quickly, from 3:40 through around 4:20 and doesn't step on the gas at all.   I miss these details in Portnoy's work...not only this track but many other covers that I've heard him play.  Sure, he's got monstrous chops and devour complexity in a trice but it takes skill to produce details on an instrument (or with the voice, for that matter) too.   I interpret Pedro's unfavourable comments on Portnoy vis-a-vis Mason in that light.  By the way, I wouldn't even want to hear Mason attempt Erotomania.

I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself.

Billy 7 wrote: verslibre wrote: chopper wrote: Collins is an excellent drummer - his work on Genesis Live is as good as anything else in prog.   And how about those nifty Brand X recordings! I expect Collins to have some fans on a prog site but go over to rock forums and not so ! Very overated in prog circles !

rogerthat wrote: ^^^  Ah, but he does make full use of the snare even here at around 4:20.  Pedro can be pretty opinionated but I wouldn't discount his powers of observation.  And something Mason achieves on the Live at Pompeii version that I didn't hear here is....he actually creates a sense of melody on drums from around 3:40 that blends very well with the 'actual' melody being played at that point.  I am not going to say it is impossible for some other drummer to produce that effect but it is certainly something I've heard rarely, if at all, from any drummer.   I had never noticed this before but I was piqued by Pedro's comments on Set Controls and wanted to find out for myself.  I also notice that Mason plays very lightly, though quickly, from 3:40 through around 4:20 and doesn't step on the gas at all.   I miss these details in Portnoy's work...not only this track but many other covers that I've heard him play.  Sure, he's got monstrous chops and devour complexity in a trice but it takes skill to produce details on an instrument (or with the voice, for that matter) too.   I interpret Pedro's unfavourable comments on Portnoy vis-a-vis Mason in that light.  By the way, I wouldn't even want to hear Mason attempt Erotomania.

Edited by moshkito - March 31 2013 at 14:04

Anyone having seen Live In Pompei should know that if Nick Mason became a 'simpler' drummer it was because he chose to, not because he could not play.

Finnforest wrote: Any thoughts on Mick Fleetwood?  I knew a drummer who thought Mick was less than impressive....I don't think he's bad really, maybe a bit unimaginative?

I think he's lovely. Very subtle.
But from the discussion here I've come to realise that most people don't appreciate that. Same with Nick Mason, a drummer that chose not to out-stage the rest of the gang. 

zravkapt wrote: Nick Mason is no Meg White, but he ain't bad...

^^^  Ah, but he does make full use of the snare even here at around 4:20.  Pedro can be pretty opinionated but I wouldn't discount his powers of observation.  And something Mason achieves on the Live at Pompeii version that I didn't hear here is....he actually creates a sense of melody on drums from around 3:40 that blends very well with the 'actual' melody being played at that point.  I am not going to say it is impossible for some other drummer to produce that effect but it is certainly something I've heard rarely, if at all, from any drummer.   I had never noticed this before but I was piqued by Pedro's comments on Set Controls and wanted to find out for myself.

 I also notice that Mason plays very lightly, though quickly, from 3:40 through around 4:20 and doesn't step on the gas at all.   I miss these details in Portnoy's work...not only this track but many other covers that I've heard him play.  Sure, he's got monstrous chops and devour complexity in a trice but it takes skill to produce details on an instrument (or with the voice, for that matter) too.   I interpret Pedro's unfavourable comments on Portnoy vis-a-vis Mason in that light.  By the way, I wouldn't even want to hear Mason attempt Erotomania.

JS19 wrote: Billy 7 wrote: Nick Mason = poor drummer who got lucky Pink Floyd are good despite him, not because of him. he's not a bad drummer. Just an extremely simplistic one. Keeps time and nothing more.

Actually, he wasn't always simplistic, especially during the Piper era. It wasn't until around Meddle that he simplified his style.

Billy 7 wrote: Nik Mason = poor drummer who got lucky

Billy 7 wrote: Nik Mason = poor drummer who got lucky