Good prog band, bad drummer

KingCrInuYasha wrote: @darkshade True. Terry Bozzio's drumming is pretty sweet.

darkshade wrote: KingCrInuYasha wrote: Adams Bolero wrote: darkshade wrote: The original Mothers Of Invention Jimmy Carl Black is a bad drummer? Not to my ears. Yeah, really. Have you heard "Who Needs The Peace Corps?", from We're Only In It For The Money? The drumming on that track is just fantastic. I assumed the word "bad" was being used loosely on this thread. Obviously JCB is not a bad drummer, but he's not exceptional. Zappa had better drummers for the remainder of his career, and you could feel it in his music.

Also, for a good chunk of the early Mothers days, they had two drummers (JCB along with either Billy Mundi or Artie Tripp).  Jim usually just kept a straight 4 beat while the other guys played the more complex stuff.  But even though he wasn't technically advanced (or didn't let on that he was), I always really liked his "feel".  Just a hair behind the beat, but very steady.  Gives their one-chord jams (e.g. live versions of King Kong) a nice foundation.

richardh wrote: I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.

richardh wrote: I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.

Yeah, there's been much praise about Gavin Harrison, and the previous drummer from Porcupine Tree hasn't been particularly loved. However, from what I've heard from the band, I'm not so sure I prefer them with Harrison. The only album I have with their previous drummer is the live album "Coma Divine", and with Harrison I have all the studio albums except the last one. Now, I haven't payed much attention to the drums yet, so I might want to give them a listen focusing on drums, however, I kind of remember better the drums on Coma Divine, there was something kind of special about them that I didn't hear on the Harrison albums. Perhaps it is more a thing about the music on the albums and not the drummer. Or perhaps it is like comparing Nick Mason with Bill Brufford... it is perfectly clear who would be the favourite drummer here in PA, however, Mason did some very interesting things for me, specially on Floyd's earlier albums.

hate to put it that way, but you would never get a good band with a bad drummer, at least a good live band. I've been to Anathema twice, and watching that guy drumming made me think about how much they're spending on recording sessions for drums only, he's below average, to say the least!

And with "Script for a Jester's Tear" being my favouritest album ever I still have to agree that Pointer was really weak back in those days

Phil Collins once said you can have a mediocre band with a great drummer but you can't have a great band with a mediocre drummer. 

twosteves wrote: Phil Collins once said you can have a mediocre band with a great drummer but you can't have a great band with a mediocre drummer.

I see it the other way around. First of all it depends on what do you consider mediocare?
I have tons of bands with mediocare drummers which means they are keeping the beat and occasionally fill out the songs, as long as the band have good material then it's alright for me. Pink Floyd would be a good example for that and Dream Theater (which I don't like most of their material) is the opposite example.

On Steve Hackett's Time Lapse there is a drummer who attempts to play Ian Mosley's parts. He sounded as if he was dragging and slowing the band down when he played the difficult parts. He did not play fast triplets like Mosely and that made the music feel worthless like taking the piston out of an engine. Mosley attacked the early Hackett music with conviction and I grew used to hearing his style and dreading the fact that he was being replaced. Mosley was a magnificent drummer with beautiful chops and power to drive the band taking the music Hackett composed to the perfect level. Tapes from the "Reading Festival" are a display of his talents. He was a bit like Simon Phillips , painting the album with inventive drum parts...just as Phillips did on Roger Glover's Elements. You can't possibly replace a drummer of that dimension with another drummer who isn't exactly seasoned and is still a student learning the craft or a professional drummer who simply isn't capable and hasn't reached higher levels like a Chester Thompson or a Michael Giles. I watched him play on dvd and listened to the cd wondering if Steve Hackett was merely desperate.

Prog-jester wrote: ...And with "Script for a Jester's Tear" being my favouritest album ever I still have to agree that Pointer was really weak back in those days

Dayvenkirq wrote: What's a bad drummer?