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Wanorak View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:39
Marillion with Mick Pointer stands out for me also. All you have to do is listen to Arena albums to hear he really hasn't progressed.
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:40
So, I guess Arena is the true answer here
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:56
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Then I can't believe all these aforementioned guys were let in all those bands.
 
They must have used the surface of their talents at the audition and pulled the wool over someone's eyes. Maybe a specific band lost a impeccable drummer and were pressured to go on tour and quickly hired someone who sounded professional at obvious points yet never revealed what was in store for the band. You might say to the drummer..."You will need to speed that part up after so many nights of playing it"..."We know you're struggling with it and so we will play it a little slower because it's difficult for you now...You've only got a week before the bookings. Little do you know that this drummer has other slop-king ideas up his sleeve. Alan White was given 2 weeks to learn material for YES and to go out on tour. He sounds a little unsure of himself on YESSONGS, makes a few mistakes, but! he continued to work the music out until the band was tight again. He was already a seasoned drummer in other styles of music..he just needed more time. In the case of others...I don't know . I mean ...I can't see any professional musician hiring a drummer that's bad unless the motive was to make money or perhaps the fear of losing money would be for that desperate move. On the other hand..some fantastic musicians have a mental block. Keith Emerson once raved about Randy Bachman and also played with Davy O"list ..who neither of them as guitarists can compare to the level of Emerson on piano. Color me blind because why wouldn't he bragged about someone who was completely outstanding? Listen to how awful David O'list's leads are with the NICE. It's not only terribly distorted..but no feeling, sloppy, and a very bad buzzsaw.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 00:25
Funny the couple of Hawkwind mentions, I know a few friends who instantly think of the drummer on Hawkwind's `Live Chronicles' as a poor drummer - BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH and that's about it!

Can't say it really damaged the music for me, I think that's a terrific live set all around anyway, and also cool that's it's pretty different to the studio album. Both stand proud on their own merits!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 01:54
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.
 
Cookies' a genius. Andy Edwards is also excellent, but no way is he better than Paul Cook. And Ian Mosley is a very fine player indeed; see his work with Trace.
 
 

I would rate Cook as ultra solid ('genius' is way over egging it i think) while Andy Edwards brought a sense of dynamics that was previously lacking (imo)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 02:00
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.


Yeah, there's been much praise about Gavin Harrison, and the previous drummer from Porcupine Tree hasn't been particularly loved. However, from what I've heard from the band, I'm not so sure I prefer them with Harrison. The only album I have with their previous drummer is the live album "Coma Divine", and with Harrison I have all the studio albums except the last one. Now, I haven't payed much attention to the drums yet, so I might want to give them a listen focusing on drums, however, I kind of remember better the drums on Coma Divine, there was something kind of special about them that I didn't hear on the Harrison albums. Perhaps it is more a thing about the music on the albums and not the drummer. Or perhaps it is like comparing Nick Mason with Bill Brufford... it is perfectly clear who would be the favourite drummer here in PA, however, Mason did some very interesting things for me, specially on Floyd's earlier albums.

I was never that impressed with PT until I heard Deadwing but as you suggest maybe that was more to do with the style of music ( more metal) than anything else although I think Harrisons drumming on that album is exceptional and of a higher standard than anything else I've heard in the PT catalogue ( I have pretty much everything). Up The Downstair was released with Harrison drumming on it so you may want to compare that rather than the later ones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 02:16
Oh, for Porcupine Tree give me wonderful Chris Maitland on drums anyday over Gavin Harrison, as good as he is (and gets better with every PT album). So much more variety, warmth, depth and subtlety that Harrison has ever managed.

Man, just one listen of albums like `Signify' and `Recordings' reminds me how much I prefer the guy!

Please don't interpret this as me not liking Harrison, not the case at all, just that to my ears it's obvious the guy is more of a `metal' drummer, but he manages to impress me more and more with every new PT release, and especailly those last two live PT DVD's :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 02:19
^ Gavin explained in a recent interview that he is more of jazz drummer than anything else, though he can be flexible and willing to learn to play within any stylistic environment ... maybe other than punk.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 05 2013 at 02:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 03:31
I always found it interesting how similar Gavin Harrison can sound to Chirs Maitland on In Absentia. I think that if Chris had done "Trains", it would have sounded almost the same, maybe a bit straighter.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 04:17
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Oh, for Porcupine Tree give me wonderful Chris Maitland on drums anyday over Gavin Harrison, as good as he is (and gets better with every PT album). So much more variety, warmth, depth and subtlety that Harrison has ever managed.
I don't prefer one over the other, but I like them both for different reasons.  I think Harrison could learn a lot from Maitland when it comes to those qualities you singled out, and I think Maitland could learn a lot from Harrison when it comes to rhythmic complexity.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Gavin explained in a recent interview that he is more of jazz drummer than anything else, though he can be flexible and willing to learn to play within any stylistic environment...
I have no doubt he can play any style and maintain his impeccable sense of time and unrivaled mastery of rhythm.  It's interesting that he calls himself primarily a Jazz drummer, though, because he seems to lack the "subtlety" and "variety" of texture, as well as the "warmth" and "depth" of expression I look for in a great Jazz drummer.  There is definitely an academic side to modern Jazz, but at a certain level, it's more about "feel" than absolute rhythmic integrity.  I've never heard anything to suggest that Harrison is capable of feeling swing and not treating it as a mathematical exercise.

Moving on... One example of a less-than stellar live drummer is Phil Ehart of Kansas.  His sense of time has a tendency to wander.



Edited by JediJoker7169 - March 05 2013 at 04:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 04:29
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul HarbouringTheSoul wrote:

Metallica


Wanted to say it, but this is in the Prog Music Lounge. LOL

I like Lars. It's is what attracted me to the band in the first place.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 06:42
Although they ain't fully fledged Prog, Queen were always far more deserving of a better drummer than Roger Taylor methinks....you can play very simply but with great feel (like Charlie Watts, Ringo, Mick Avory etc) but Taylor for me is stiff and rudimentary

Similarly, although Keith Moon's style was inimitably his own, I think much of it came to mirror his eventual decline and degenerated latterly into very sloppy, forced and divorced from the synergy of his band-mates
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 06:46
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Although they ain't fully fledged Prog, Queen were always far more deserving of a better drummer than Roger Taylor methinks....you can play very simply but with great feel (like Charlie Watts, Ringo, Mick Avory etc) but Taylor for me is stiff and rudimentary

Similarly, although Keith Moon's style was inimitably his own, I think much of it came to mirror his eventual decline and degenerated latterly into very sloppy, forced and divorced from the synergy of his band-mates

Better than Taylor? He's brilliant!Ouch
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 06:47
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul HarbouringTheSoul wrote:

Metallica


Wanted to say it, but this is in the Prog Music Lounge. LOL

I like Lars. It's is what attracted me to the band in the first place.


I'm a bit puzzled by the "Lars-bashing" that started a dozen years ago.)
Maybe I should watch some concert videos from the 80's because I don't hear anything wrong in his drumming on the studio albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 08:05
Lars is just a very simplistic "thump-thump" drummer. It's not so much about technical abilities (although he's far from technically accomplished), it's more that the things he chooses to play are very dull and plodding. Kinda like the aforementioned Roger Taylor actually.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 08:11
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Although they ain't fully fledged Prog, Queen were always far more deserving of a better drummer than Roger Taylor methinks....you can play very simply but with great feel (like Charlie Watts, Ringo, Mick Avory etc) but Taylor for me is stiff and rudimentary

Similarly, although Keith Moon's style was inimitably his own, I think much of it came to mirror his eventual decline and degenerated latterly into very sloppy, forced and divorced from the synergy of his band-mates

Better than Taylor? He's brilliant!Ouch
I've never been convinced by Taylor myself. I think it's his sound rather than anything, it's that loose snare I don't like. I like a crisp snare.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 08:13
You guys...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 11:13
Lars Ulrich, to my ears particularly when they are playing really fast, sounds like he falls behind the beat so much that inverts the down-beat, and I don't feel it's intentional. Battery and Fight Fire With Fire comes to mind, but basically most of the fast thrash-metal songs. As a groove drummer he's not bad, but I've just always thought there was something off about his playing. Even on Death Magnetic, though it's probably Lars' best performance, it can feel like he's just off.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 11:15
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Although they ain't fully fledged Prog, Queen were always far more deserving of a better drummer than Roger Taylor methinks....you can play very simply but with great feel (like Charlie Watts, Ringo, Mick Avory etc) but Taylor for me is stiff and rudimentary

Similarly, although Keith Moon's style was inimitably his own, I think much of it came to mirror his eventual decline and degenerated latterly into very sloppy, forced and divorced from the synergy of his band-mates

Better than Taylor? He's brilliant!Ouch
I've never been convinced by Taylor myself. I think it's his sound rather than anything, it's that loose snare I don't like. I like a crisp snare.
 
I always thought Roger Taylor was an excellent drummer.  Of course, he's not Bill or Phil or Neil, but for what Queen were doing, he was perfect.  And he could write and sing pretty dang well too. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2013 at 11:47
Funny thing that those comments about the "live" experience but it really changes one's perceptions be it Simon King (Hawkwind) or Bonham . There are many drummers who in a live setting simply get really into it and are a pure joy to watch (grimacing!) . Anyone having seen Bruford will remember his intensity, tongue sticking out and mouth open! Leon N'Dugu Chancler , though not a household name, was stunning as Santana's drummer briefly. 
But when you see a drummer going through the motions looking bored , regardless of the level of complexity of the rhythms, you get the feeling he is just a keeper of time . Which explains my Charlie Watts rant!  
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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