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Good prog band, bad drummer

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Good prog band, bad drummer
    Posted: April 01 2013 at 15:25
Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Dellinger


I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself.


That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this?  Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
 
I was actually thinking that ITCOTKC is a great example. For my ears, so is Ringo in Abbey Road for the most part (minus one song or so).
 
BTW, thx so much for using the term "melody" in this discussion, because to me it is just another instrument ... playing another melody to create a whole ... and for my ears that IS what music is about ... when you look at a score with 35 or more lines of music for different instruments ... and then you see rock music ... and 3 of the instruments are doing the same thing ... except the guitarist in the ozone ... it takes a lot of the beauty in the music for me ... the "expression", and this is the reason why AD2 is so important for me in the early days ...


Edited by moshkito - April 01 2013 at 15:37
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sukmytoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2013 at 16:49
When I first look at a band I tend to look at the drummer's kit on stage - a kit consisting of nothing but a few drums I kind of avoid the band - a kit that looks like the guy is surrounded by a spaceship and I know I'm going to invariably enjoy the music. I kind of first judge a band looking at the drummer. For me the drummer who's who if I have to think really quickly about it is - Collins, Paice, Bonham, Portnoy and Peart (those guys for me are the best although I've answered that off the cuff, quickly). Ringo and Keith Moon weren't bad for me relating to the music they drummed to. I've always perceived personally that Metallica suffered due to its drummer but then that's just me - I've never really cottoned to the Metallica thing and I doubt that I ever will.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2013 at 20:39
Originally posted by rogerthat


Originally posted by Dellinger

I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself.
That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this?  Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.


OK, I hope we're talking about the same thing, but I guess it was mainly done on the Pictures at an Exhibition album. Specially on the "Promenade" part that goes before "The Hut of Baba Yaga" (and perhaps not so obvious, but on the Baba Yaga song itself). Somehow on "The Gnome", "The Old Castle / Blues Variations", and "Nutrocker", but on those ones perhaps it was just that his drumming responded very nicely to the melody, more than it taking part of it, but still I like it very much (in a similar way I would think about "The Barbarian" and "Toccata").
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Junges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2013 at 21:26
Opeth. Not saying Axe is a bad drummer, but Martin Lopez is much better. Question of taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 10:07
Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.
As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. 
 
My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 10:27
Originally posted by Junges

Opeth. Not saying Axe is a bad drummer, but Martin Lopez is much better. Question of taste.

Apart from this not meeting the topic requirement, I agree.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 13:52
Originally posted by timbo

Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.
As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. 
 
My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
 
 

Nick Mason has admitted that he didn't try that hard after Dark Side Of The Moon so that has left him open to criticism. I have to say I'm more with you on this. Mason's drumming is absolutely fine for the band he was in and more so I think there is more going on than people will credit him for. The drumming on Shine On You Crazy Diamond may sound simple but the feel is totally unique and I would like to see anyone else try and recreate that.

The first time I sat up and took real interest in drumming was probably Seven Seas Of Rye. Roger Taylor is perhaps another maligned drummer but I still love what he does there.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote john-westover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 16:44
drummers are dime a dozen tfk had numerous drummers imho zoltan was best of batch
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 21:33
Originally posted by timbo



Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.
As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. 
 
My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
 
 


I hate when people dismiss music because it's old music. But it's their loss.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 05 2013 at 01:40
Originally posted by john-westover

drummers are dime a dozen tfk had numerous drummers imho zoltan was best of batch

their current drummer is better suited to their music imo. Zoltan is very talented but stays too much on the jazzy side for my taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 11:39
Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Dellinger


I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself.


That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this?  Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
 
Just found another one ... and a much better example ... review upcoming soon.
 
Go listen to Steve Gadd in Kate Bush's "50 Words for Snow" ... and I specially love the fact that there is no "format" for her and the music ... and she just keeps going, and I don't see, for even one second, where Steve Gadd is lacking a touch or feel ... that makes her work come off even better and so well defined.
 
It is, by VERY VERY FAR, the most progressive drumming that I have heard since Pierre Moerlin ... that simple ... and case closed! But I seriously doubt that the majority of folks here can sit through her work, as it is so far and away more progressive in the pure sense of the word, that most of us can not even fathom it, or consider it!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 15:28
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Dellinger


I very much agree with you here. I had noticed this thing you mention about Mason drumming with some sort of melody on Set the Controls from Live at Pompeii, and I really love it... and he did that on some other songs from the early albums. As far as I understand it, I heard the same thing on a few songs with Carl Palmer too. It's too bad both Mason and Palmer stopped doing that, I'd love to have heard this kind of drumming more often in other bands too. Oh yeah, and it was because of this "melody" kind of drumming that I sometimes feel I actually like Carl Palmer better than Bruford himself.


That's interesting, can you recall some songs of ELP where he's done this?  Never noticed this before in Palmer's work so I am curious to find out.
 
Just found another one ... and a much better example ... review upcoming soon.
 
Go listen to Steve Gadd in Kate Bush's "50 Words for Snow" ... and I specially love the fact that there is no "format" for her and the music ... and she just keeps going, and I don't see, for even one second, where Steve Gadd is lacking a touch or feel ... that makes her work come off even better and so well defined.
 
It is, by VERY VERY FAR, the most progressive drumming that I have heard since Pierre Moerlin ... that simple ... and case closed! But I seriously doubt that the majority of folks here can sit through her work, as it is so far and away more progressive in the pure sense of the word, that most of us can not even fathom it, or consider it!

Kate Bush has quite a few fans around here Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Biff Tannen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:59
Gavin Harrison is awesome and, sure, was an upgrade, but Chris Maitland was a mighty fine drummer as well...certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination. 
"What are you looking at, butthead?"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2013 at 16:24
Originally posted by timbo

...
My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
... 
 
 
Make sure you tell her, that if she thinks it's old music and she can't learn from it, that she will never be good enough to get anywhere with any band!
 
There is no such thing as "old music" ... there is only people that do not know there is music, that's all!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Quote markosherrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2013 at 16:34
The drummer of Blue Oyster Cult in fire of unknow origin,.
Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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Post Options Post Options   Quote timbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 04:04
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by timbo

...
My daughter is a drummer now, and I've tried to get her to listen to it, but she just shakes her head and says "that's old music Dad".
... 
 
 
Make sure you tell her, that if she thinks it's old music and she can't learn from it, that she will never be good enough to get anywhere with any band!
 
There is no such thing as "old music" ... there is only people that do not know there is music, that's all!
 
Ha! Yes I agree!
 
Irony is that she currently plays in a metal band performing covers of bands like Metallica and Kiss that were originally made 10 or 20 years before she was born.
 
I did manage to get her to listen to some Zep once, but only because she was stuck in a car with me and couldn't go anywhere.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neo-Romantic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:34
Originally posted by timbo

Kind of surprised to see Nick Mason being touted as a bad drummer here.
As a keyboard player, I never really listened much to the drums - my heroes were Tony Banks, Jon Lord and Rick Wakeman.But the drumming on "Dark Side" was something that made me sit up and listen. I'd never heard drums played like he does on the early part of "Time" before, as a lead instrument rather than simply accompaniment. 

Nick Mason was always a mixed bag for me. The first live recording I ever saw of him was a clip of him playing "One of These Days" live at Pompeii where the camera was trained on him specifically. Problem was he was dragging, causing the whole band to slow down as the song went on and he clumsily dropped a stick during a fill where he was more convulsing than tastefully adding anything. As a drummer, I get it, you drop sticks, it happens. I've done it plenty of times, even live. I'm not writing him off entirely, as shows later in the band's career showed a more focused Mason adding more creative parts not present on the album. It was just a jarring example that left an impression on me.

But the band itself didn't suffer as a whole. Just that one aspect of the ensemble.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote portugal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 06:36
I glanced through the topic but didn't see these answers:

1. Anathema
2. Phideaux

Not "bad" drummers, but without any flight of imagination :)
prog rules
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 07:21
Originally posted by markosherrera

The drummer of Blue Oyster Cult in fire of unknow origin,.
Eh? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote markosherrera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2013 at 09:59
Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by markosherrera

The drummer of Blue Oyster Cult in fire of unknow origin,.
Eh? Confused


Not bad, but not good as Neil Peart, Phil Collin, Palmer,Bruford etc






Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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