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Good prog band, bad drummer

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humor4u1959 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote humor4u1959 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Good prog band, bad drummer
    Posted: April 28 2013 at 01:38
Though I've always loved ELP & Asia, I'd say Carl Palmer is very overrated. He's got speed and that's it. He's not a good ensemble player like my 5 faves below are. He also lacks imagination in his playing. He adds nothing extra to the music.

I've been a drummer for 48 years and played professionally for many years. I'm not a virtuoso, but I am qualified to comment on this. My favorite drummers, each for unique reasons, are as follows:

Joe Morello (Dave Brubeck Quartet, best jazz drummer ever.)
Manu Katche (Unreal!)
Phil Collins (In his prime, the '70's)
B.J. Wilson (Procol Harum, so original and expert in dynamics)
Ringo Starr (Innovative for his time & tasteful)

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all. Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...

There you have it.
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twosteves View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 09:33
agree with humor4u1959---Peart is overrated---doesn't have the finesse of the others you mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 16:53
Originally posted by humor4u1959

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all. Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...
 
Actually, I think Ringo's the most overrated drummer of all time. Since he's a Beatle, nobody seems to do anything save put him on a pedestal, and I've seen him rated above every other drummer out there, from Bruford to Zonder! For my money, Keith Moon and Ginger Baker influenced young aspiring prog/rock drummers far and away more than Ringo.
 
However...I agree with you. Neil's appearance on Letterman was dreadful. It was a truncated performance of his in-concert drum solo. He didn't try to wing any part of it. He could have wailed and bashed and it would've been better. Neil is a superb rock drummer, but yeah, he's not much of an improviser. He's a "composer" to a tee.
 
Sheila E.was great. She has groove to spare. She has her background (and her dad, Pete) to thank for that. She can play in various styles. Dennis Chambers is one of the best drummers out there but he held himself back.
 


Edited by verslibre - April 28 2013 at 16:54
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humor4u1959 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote humor4u1959 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 22:43
Originally posted by verslibre



Originally posted by humor4u1959

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all. Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...

Actually, I think Ringo's the most overrated drummer of all time. Since he's a Beatle, nobody seems to do anything save put him on a pedestal, and I've seen him rated above every other drummer out there, from Bruford to Zonder! For my money, Keith Moon and Ginger Baker influenced young aspiring prog/rock drummers far and away more than Ringo.
However...I agree with you. Neil's appearance on Letterman was dreadful. It was a truncated performance of his in-concert drum solo. He didn't try to wing any part of it. He could havewailed and bashed and it would've been better. Neil is a superb rock drummer, but yeah, he's not much of an improviser. He's a "composer" to a tee.
Sheila E.was great. She has groove to spare. She has her background (and her dad, Pete) to thank for that. She can play in various styles. Dennis Chambers is one of the best drummers out there but he held himself back.



I see your point. I should've wrote that I love Ringo's simplicity too. No one was playing pop like him back in the early to mid '60's. His classy little fills were a new thing then. Charlie Watts has no technique. Ringo did. Check out his groove on 'I Feel Fine.' And his drums always sounded great in the studio and live. So, for those reasons, he belongs on my list.

Moon had no technique at all, well very little. He was drunk over half the time anyway. LOL! He was just a constant thrashing of cymbals and noise. Baker was notable for the double bass thing and I like him too. But, I wouldn't put him on my list. To me, Bonham is overrated too. That bass and tom triplet thing he was known for is done way better by so many drummers. I prefer Ian Paice to Bonham for hard rock drumming anytime.

We can agree on Peart. People seldom agree on these things anyway. I suppose that's the point of forums. But, I do see what you mean about Ringo. And I respect your opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 23:09
Originally posted by humor4u1959

To me, Bonham is overrated too. That bass and tom triplet thing he was known for is done way better by so many drummers. I prefer Ian Paice to Bonham for hard rock drumming anytime.
Same here. Paice, Bill Ward, Jon Hiseman, Cozy Powell, any of those guys over Bonham. Yeah, Moon was drunk live but he sounded great on record. Apart from JPJ, Zeppelin were a pretty sloppy band, anyhow. They left many goofs on their albums. No doubt it sounded perfect considering the vast quantities of Godknowswhat they were imbibing. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 05:10
Originally posted by humor4u1959

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all. Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...

There you have it.
That's the one thing that disappoints me about Peart, he does tend to copy the studio versions when playing live.
 
Anyone who doubts the drumming ability of Mr Starr should try playing "Ticket to Ride".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 23:54
Honestly, my favorite band is Riverside, but I've always been disappointed with the drummer.  I know he can do more.  I mean, he does shine at times, but, as on SONGS, I feel he is barely there.  I just wish he'd step it up a notch, though it doesn't detract from the music. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Billy 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2013 at 12:18
Originally posted by humor4u1959

Though I've always loved ELP & Asia, I'd say Carl Palmer is very overrated. He's got speed and that's it. He's not a good ensemble player like my 5 faves below are. He also lacks imagination in his playing. He adds nothing extra to the music.

I've been a drummer for 48 years and played professionally for many years. I'm not a virtuoso, but I am qualified to comment on this. My favorite drummers, each for unique reasons, are as follows:

Joe Morello (Dave Brubeck Quartet, best jazz drummer ever.)
Manu Katche (Unreal!)
Phil Collins (In his prime, the '70's)
B.J. Wilson (Procol Harum, so original and expert in dynamics)
Ringo Starr (Innovative for his time & tasteful)

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all.
Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...

There you have it.

There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !
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Post Options Post Options   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 02:12
Originally posted by Billy 7

Originally posted by humor4u1959

Though I've always loved ELP & Asia, I'd say Carl Palmer is very overrated. He's got speed and that's it. He's not a good ensemble player like my 5 faves below are. He also lacks imagination in his playing. He adds nothing extra to the music.

I've been a drummer for 48 years and played professionally for many years. I'm not a virtuoso, but I am qualified to comment on this. My favorite drummers, each for unique reasons, are as follows:

Joe Morello (Dave Brubeck Quartet, best jazz drummer ever.)
Manu Katche (Unreal!)
Phil Collins (In his prime, the '70's)
B.J. Wilson (Procol Harum, so original and expert in dynamics)
Ringo Starr (Innovative for his time & tasteful)

Neil Peart is the most overrated drummer of all time. He was on Letterman's 'drum solo week' a couple years ago and was the worst, by far. Sheila E. blew him away. He even admits he cannot improvise at all.
Plays all songs like the record all the time. Can you say boring? Zzzz...

There you have it.

There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !

No. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 05:20
Originally posted by Billy 7


There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !


There's no way you've heard Phil Collins with Brand X or pre-And Then There Were Three Genesis.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 09:03
Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Billy 7


There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !


There's no way you've heard Phil Collins with Brand X or pre-And Then There Were Three Genesis.

Exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Billy 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 17:55
Originally posted by twosteves


Originally posted by rogerthat


Originally posted by Billy 7

There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !
There's no way you've heard Phil Collins with Brand X or pre-And Then There Were Three Genesis.

Exactly.


He's not even made it into the Modern Drummer hall of fame
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 18:22
Originally posted by Billy 7

Originally posted by twosteves


Originally posted by rogerthat


Originally posted by Billy 7

There's no way you are a drummer...Phil Collins was the Ringo Starr of the 80's & their both crap !
There's no way you've heard Phil Collins with Brand X or pre-And Then There Were Three Genesis.

Exactly.


He's not even made it into the Modern Drummer hall of fame

So that's the standard for being a great drummer? Ringo is in there so he must be better than 99% of all other drummers. 

Try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 18:32
Billy7, we'll excuse your ignorance so far about Phil Collins, as it likely seems your impression of him is limited to that appaling plastic 80's booming sound, or worse still, that freaking drumming ape on the Cadbury chocolate commercial.

But do yourself a favour, check out the Brand X album `Unorthodox Behaviour', play the first track, and you'll be sold on him in minutes. The rest of the album just keeps up the amazing quality.

Then maybe give the Genesis album `And Then There Were Three' from the late 70's a go, for pop music, Phil is incredibly busy and complex on that one.

There's a damn good reason Collins is considered by many to either be one of the most talented drummers in progressive rock, or one of the most influential, usually both.

Don't let his career as a `soft ballad/cheesy pop/bored and horny housewives choice of singer' in the 80's blind you to how talented the guy was!

Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - May 05 2013 at 18:34
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Post Options Post Options   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2013 at 18:48
I do find it a bit strange that he's not in the Modern Drummer hall of fame as I think they have covered his career a lot--is Bill Bruford in there?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Billy 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2013 at 04:16
Originally posted by twosteves

I do find it a bit strange that he's not in the Modern Drummer hall of fame as I think they have covered his career a lot--is Bill Bruford in there?


Yes , all the usual suspects are there except Collins !
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Post Options Post Options   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2013 at 14:22
Fish-era Marillion might have been more lackluster had they not replaced their first drummer with Ian Mosley.  The drumming on SfaJT is one of the reasons that has never been my favorite Fish-era Marillion album...
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