Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Good prog band, bad drummer
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Good prog band, bad drummer

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 11>
Author
Message
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 11018
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 15:08
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

@darkshade

True. Terry Bozzio's drumming is pretty sweet.

he also upped the ante in UK ( now who was that guy he replaced?Wink)
Back to Top
HarbouringTheSoul View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HarbouringTheSoul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 15:15
Metallica
Back to Top
HolyMoly View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl and Canterbury Teams

Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 20594
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 15:18
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

Originally posted by Adams Bolero Adams Bolero wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

The original Mothers Of Invention
Jimmy Carl Black is a bad drummer? Not to my ears.


Yeah, really. Have you heard "Who Needs The Peace Corps?", from We're Only In It For The Money? The drumming on that track is just fantastic.



I assumed the word "bad" was being used loosely on this thread. Obviously JCB is not a bad drummer, but he's not exceptional. Zappa had better drummers for the remainder of his career, and you could feel it in his music.
Also, for a good chunk of the early Mothers days, they had two drummers (JCB along with either Billy Mundi or Artie Tripp).  Jim usually just kept a straight 4 beat while the other guys played the more complex stuff.  But even though he wasn't technically advanced (or didn't let on that he was), I always really liked his "feel".  Just a hair behind the beat, but very steady.  Gives their one-chord jams (e.g. live versions of King Kong) a nice foundation.
My other avatar is a Porsche / RARE GOAT bandcamp page

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
Back to Top
darkshade View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Jazz Rock/Fusion Team

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10866
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 15:19
Originally posted by HarbouringTheSoul HarbouringTheSoul wrote:

Metallica


Wanted to say it, but this is in the Prog Music Lounge. LOL
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2555
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 17:29
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.
 
Cookies' a genius. Andy Edwards is also excellent, but no way is he better than Paul Cook. And Ian Mosley is a very fine player indeed; see his work with Trace.
 
 
I have many faults. Being wrong is not one of them.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 4862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 18:48
There was a Dream Theater concert I went some a few years ago, and some band called "Big Elf", I think, opened the show. They played several songs, and it was OK (I wouldn't go see them alone, though). There was something that sounded kind of noisy about them. Then Mike Portnoy himself came in to play some song with them, and there it became evident what was making them sound noisy: the drummer; with Portnoy on drums, it was as if they were a different band. Now, I don't know them well enough to say that I consider them a good band, not even that I consider their drummer a bad drummer, but that was the impression that stayed with me.
Back to Top
Dellinger View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 4862
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 18:56
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I like Paul Cook ( of IQ) and he is far from a bad drummer but Andy Edwards on Frequency shows what the band was missing for a number of years perhaps. Could they have been bigger? I'm not sure given that Marillion were seemingly never held back by having a less than brilliant drummer. I suppose Porcupine Tree might be an example of a band that took a big leap forward when they (or rather Steven) changed the drummer.


Yeah, there's been much praise about Gavin Harrison, and the previous drummer from Porcupine Tree hasn't been particularly loved. However, from what I've heard from the band, I'm not so sure I prefer them with Harrison. The only album I have with their previous drummer is the live album "Coma Divine", and with Harrison I have all the studio albums except the last one. Now, I haven't payed much attention to the drums yet, so I might want to give them a listen focusing on drums, however, I kind of remember better the drums on Coma Divine, there was something kind of special about them that I didn't hear on the Harrison albums. Perhaps it is more a thing about the music on the albums and not the drummer. Or perhaps it is like comparing Nick Mason with Bill Brufford... it is perfectly clear who would be the favourite drummer here in PA, however, Mason did some very interesting things for me, specially on Floyd's earlier albums.
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: September 03 2006
Status: Online
Points: 5593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 19:13
Wouldn't call him a bad drummer, but Mick Pointer was pretty stiff on the first Marillion album and the arrival of Mosley added a lot to their sound.  Somewhat similar to Mayhew-Collins, you could say.  The loss of Bruford held back Yes just as they peaked (then again, it could be argued they held him back and he found his voice with KC).

Not prog, but likewise, the loss of Les Binks for Judas Priest and Clive Burr for Iron Maiden hurt them.  Only a bit in the case of Maiden as McBrain was at least effective but Holland proved to be a dull and loud drummer.
Back to Top
Prog-jester View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 05 2005
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 4598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog-jester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 19:36
hate to put it that way, but you would never get a good band with a bad drummer, at least a good live band. I've been to Anathema twice, and watching that guy drumming made me think about how much they're spending on recording sessions for drums only, he's below average, to say the least!

And with "Script for a Jester's Tear" being my favouritest album ever I still have to agree that Pointer was really weak back in those days
Back to Top
ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Riverside,CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 19:47
Ideally they aren't supposed to exist because the drummer is the clock and the heartbeat of a band. But they do Shocked

Lasr Ulrich a fine example: Metallica
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

Back to Top
twosteves View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 01 2007
Location: NYC and RBK
Status: Offline
Points: 1316
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 21:52
Phil Collins once said you can have a mediocre band with a great drummer but you can't have a great band with a mediocre drummer. Smile
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Post/Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 14698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 21:56
Anekdoten is one of my favorite bands, but their drumming underwhelming in many songs. 

So that's my pick. 
I Will Write Peace All Over Your Wings And You Will Fly Around The World
Back to Top
Sagichim View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Eclectic Prog Team

Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Status: Online
Points: 4735
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sagichim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 22:46
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Phil Collins once said you can have a mediocre band with a great drummer but you can't have a great band with a mediocre drummer. Smile

I see it the other way around. First of all it depends on what do you consider mediocare?
I have tons of bands with mediocare drummers which means they are keeping the beat and occasionally fill out the songs, as long as the band have good material then it's alright for me. Pink Floyd would be a good example for that and Dream Theater (which I don't like most of their material) is the opposite example.
"One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain.."
Back to Top
prog4evr View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1313
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 22:50
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by coasterzombie coasterzombie wrote:

Rush - John Rutsey

on that basis I would add John Mayhew (Genesis) . Both were decent drummers just not as amazingly talented as the people that replaced them.
Exactly what I was thinking.  I thought first of Mayhew before I was reminded of Rutsey...
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Online
Points: 2660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 22:52

On Steve Hackett's Time Lapse there is a drummer who attempts to play Ian Mosley's parts. He sounded as if he was dragging and slowing the band down when he played the difficult parts. He did not play fast triplets like Mosely and that made the music feel worthless like taking the piston out of an engine. Mosley attacked the early Hackett music with conviction and I grew used to hearing his style and dreading the fact that he was being replaced. Mosley was a magnificent drummer with beautiful chops and power to drive the band taking the music Hackett composed to the perfect level. Tapes from the "Reading Festival" are a display of his talents. He was a bit like Simon Phillips , painting the album with inventive drum parts...just as Phillips did on Roger Glover's Elements. You can't possibly replace a drummer of that dimension with another drummer who isn't exactly seasoned and is still a student learning the craft or a professional drummer who simply isn't capable and hasn't reached higher levels like a Chester Thompson or a Michael Giles. I watched him play on dvd and listened to the cd wondering if Steve Hackett was merely desperate.

Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 22:52
What's a bad drummer?
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
Back to Top
prog4evr View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 22 2005
Location: Wuhan, China
Status: Offline
Points: 1313
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 22:52
Originally posted by Prog-jester Prog-jester wrote:

...And with "Script for a Jester's Tear" being my favouritest album ever I still have to agree that Pointer was really weak back in those days
Agreed. Ian Mosley is so much better than Pointer. Maybe a tribute band can redeem SfaJT sometime in the future...
Back to Top
fusaka View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2007
Location: Québec
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:06
@Toddler
I think you're talking about Fudge Smith, who was also in Pendragon until 2005.
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Online
Points: 2660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:29
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

What's a bad drummer?
 
A bad drummer is someone who drags the time while you're playing 32 second notes which in return makes you, the guitarist or keyboardist sound as if you are unsure of the piece. It also affects the sound of the entire band who now must play a fast up tempo piece at a slow and moronic sounding pace. Bad drummers will pull your gravity awkwardly on stage during live transmission and all you can think of is how bad you want to throw a glass of water at them..but nevertheless you are professional and must as a rule.. paste that stupied phony plastic smile on your face hoping the crowd hasn't noticed.
 
A bad drummer is someone who doesn't bother to learn stage signals. You're touring constantly and so one night your singer has the flu. Unfortunately the promoter of Electric Factory Concerts doesn't see any reason whatsoever to cancel the show because of the flu. Your vocalist is singing a song that he/she has sung for a hundred nights in a row..but now begins to stare into space with a fever. Instead of singing the correct follow up section ..which might be a bridge..they go back to the chours. Because the bad drummer is not paying attention to the movement of the vocalist he/she plays the bridge while the band who has been keeping a close watch on the singer ..is following the singer into the chours. Bingo...trainwreck. Carl Palmer watched every move Emerson made during live transmission and that's what made them tight.
 
A bad drummer isn't always the guy/girl who hits the rims during a roundhouse. A bad drummer is someone who has no dynamics and plays the verse just as loud as the chours when the whole time a message is written in front of them to do otherwise. A bad drummer is someone who is on an ego trip of their own and as a result (for some moronic reason or other), decides to NOT follow the bass player. The bassist and drummer must drive the unit and feed off each other. I don't give a hoot if you're playing a beautiful John McLaughlin guitar solo note for note..with feeling...you will sound lame if the drummer and the bassist are conflicting.
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9770
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2013 at 23:34
^ Then I can't believe all these aforementioned guys were let in all those bands.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 11>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.105 seconds.