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Is Steven Wilson making Prog music?

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sorcerer kermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sorcerer kermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Steven Wilson making Prog music?
    Posted: March 08 2013 at 06:28
Progarchives is obviously the most reliable source for Prog music in web and i want to ask this question from people here because i think most of the people who like Wilson`s work are not real Prog fans, (they are usually interested in bands such as Archive , Anathema, Muse and Radiohead too) in other words the majority of them have never listened to 70`s Prog masterpieces and if they do they never get interested, so what happens here? why many people in Prog community likes Raven That ... too? is this phenomena close to Pink Floyd`s Dark Side of The Moon? (the third most popular album in the world) or is it just a simple piece of music easily pleases ears with any taste?
I myself think that Wilson is a good musician but not a Prog genius. Approve


Edited by sorcerer kermes - March 08 2013 at 07:17
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 06:33
I haven't heard his new one but the previous album is Prog. I have no  doubt about that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fusaka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 06:56
Of course he is. People in the prog community like Raven because it is prog, and very much so.

Edited to add that I hope this thread will not turn nasty... it always seem to be the case when people talk about Steven Wilson or Mike Portnoy or other prog musicians with strong personalities.


Edited by fusaka - March 08 2013 at 06:59
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 07:39
Don't know the guy or his music, but I was with him in a record store of Le quartier Latin in Paris this afternoom. He was there to sign his record. A really nice guy, very simple, very cool. Maybe I should listen to the Raven.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 07:42
Of course he is making prog, now whether one thinks of it as progressive is another matter altogether. The music style of prog is all over Steven - all the rest is just mindless stickers.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 07:55
I think you're right about one thing - that Steven Wilson does have a fanbase that has grown outside of the confines of and even indendently of the "real prog fans" as you define them (i.e. fans with prior familiarity/appreciation of the 70s roots of prog). 

Though you might see some rebuttals from people who will latch onto the "real prog fan" statement, I think I understand what you mean, and I'll accept that definition for the sake of argument, even though I don't personally agree there is such a thing. 

Your point, as I see it, is that Wilson seems to have crossed over into more mainstream acceptance (like Dark Side of the Moon, as you said), and you wanted to see if we also see this happening, and if so, does this cast doubt on Wilson's classification as a prog musician?    I'd say yes to the first question, and no to the second, because prog is defined (here, anyway) more as a stylistic term (that is, how the music sounds) rather than a mainstream/underground division (that is, the idea that prog is an underground phenomenon).

Of course, there are dozens of threads each year about what prog is/isn't, so it's evidently a burning question for many people.  I, however, think it's a fairly trivial question in terms of enjoying/not enjoying the music.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SpectralHorizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 08:02
The Raven that Refused to Sing is definitely progressive rock, but I can see where you're coming from. I listened to Porcupine Tree before I listened to many of the 70's prog masterpieces and couldn't bring myself to listen to PT or even Wilson's solo career as much. Now I listen to both frequently. I would say that Steven Wilson is prog but combines it with other things such as alternative and post-rock. This is probably why those who like Muse, Radiohead, etc. also enjoy him. Steven Wilson doesn't remind me purely of the 70's masterpieces, but then again, in progressive rock, who would want carbon copies of the greats rather than innovators?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:15
It's prog.  It (Porcupine Tree, that is) has elements of alternative rock, because of which it appeals to some alt rock listeners.  Which is just as how prog metal bands like Opeth also appeal to a lot of metal listeners because of the metal side of their music.  Rush didn't depend exclusively on a prog rock fanbase either, so I don't see the relation between the fanbase and whether the music is prog or not.   You'd tend to think prog rock ought to attract some prog fans but that's it, it's not necessarily a strong correlation.  The main reason a lot of prog rock bands have an exclusively prog following is the lack of promotion/awareness of their work outside prog circles.     
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Mystical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:20
I myself am a good fan of his latest album, but in no way is it the 11th greatest prog album of all time.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Junges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:23
I think just the opposite: his fans have only knowledge of the big ones in prog: Yes, Genesis, ELP, PF, etc. But I agree with you when you say he is not a prog genius. I think he is way way overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:33
Originally posted by The Mystical

[...]but in no way is it the 11th greatest prog album of all time.
That's because it isn't. When a high profile album is first released it gets a lot of high-ratings which means it enters the chart fairly high up. As time progresses as more considered reviews and ratings (and unfortunately retaliation ratings and hateboy ratings) are posted so it will move down the chart and eventually it will level-out at a more reasonable chart position comensurate with its actual "worth".


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:44
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I think you're right about one thing - that Steven Wilson does have a fanbase that has grown outside of the confines of and even indendently of the "real prog fans" as you define them (i.e. fans with prior familiarity/appreciation of the 70s roots of prog). 
Wilson's (overall) fan-base started outside Prog and moved inward, beginning with No Man and then Porcupine Tree, both of which were picked up by the indie crowd (such as read Melody Maker and The Wire [see image]) before anyone called them Prog.
 
 


Edited by Dean - March 08 2013 at 09:46


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:47
^But No-Man is an island!Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:48
Very cool pic of Cale.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:52
Originally posted by sorcerer kermes

Progarchives is obviously the most reliable source for Prog music in web and i want to ask this question from people here because i think most of the people who like Wilson`s work are not real Prog fans, (they are usually interested in bands such as Archive , Anathema, Muse and Radiohead too) in other words the majority of them have never listened to 70`s Prog masterpieces and if they do they never get interested, so what happens here? why many people in Prog community likes Raven That ... too? is this phenomena close to Pink Floyd`s Dark Side of The Moon? (the third most popular album in the world) or is it just a simple piece of music easily pleases ears with any taste?
I myself think that Wilson is a good musician but not a Prog genius. Approve

I bet next time you'll discuss whether Robert Fripp is a prog genius or not.Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 09:55
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Very cool pic of Cale.
To be honest, Cale on the cover is why I bought the magazine back in 1994 - discovering No Man as a result of that was a nice bonus. Approve


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 10:00
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Very cool pic of Cale.
To be honest, Cale on the cover is why I bought the magazine back in 1994 - discovering No Man as a result of that was a nice bonus. Approve


There's just something unequivocally cool about that man. 

I have still to "discover" No-Man actually. I am very fond of both IEM, Bass Communion and his solo stuff, yet the times I've heard No-Man described, I thought they weren't for me. 
YouTube will settle this for me a little later methinksBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 10:09
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I think you're right about one thing - that Steven Wilson does have a fanbase that has grown outside of the confines of and even indendently of the "real prog fans" as you define them (i.e. fans with prior familiarity/appreciation of the 70s roots of prog). 
Wilson's (overall) fan-base started outside Prog and moved inward, beginning with No Man and then Porcupine Tree, both of which were picked up by the indie crowd (such as read Melody Maker and The Wire [see image]) before anyone called them Prog.
 
 


I guess it would depend on each country: I should check the French Indie press, but I'm ready to bet that the first French fans were metalheads, since I first read about Porcupine Tree in the Metal press (and, yes, I was reading some Indie press from time to time).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 10:17
Originally posted by CPicard

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I think you're right about one thing - that Steven Wilson does have a fanbase that has grown outside of the confines of and even indendently of the "real prog fans" as you define them (i.e. fans with prior familiarity/appreciation of the 70s roots of prog). 
Wilson's (overall) fan-base started outside Prog and moved inward, beginning with No Man and then Porcupine Tree, both of which were picked up by the indie crowd (such as read Melody Maker and The Wire [see image]) before anyone called them Prog.
 
 


I guess it would depend on each country: I should check the French Indie press, but I'm ready to bet that the first French fans were metalheads, since I first read about Porcupine Tree in the Metal press (and, yes, I was reading some Indie press from time to time).
Sure, I guess that goes without saying. An artist usually (at least back in the 80s and 90s) finds fans in their home country first, how fans in other countries get to hear then will be different.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote jude111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2013 at 10:28
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I think you're right about one thing - that Steven Wilson does have a fanbase that has grown outside of the confines of and even indendently of the "real prog fans" as you define them (i.e. fans with prior familiarity/appreciation of the 70s roots of prog). 

That's a great point. Pink Floyd has millions of fans, but most of them aren't necessarily prog fans. We could probably say that about many prog bands here in PA, that a large percentage of their fan base is outside the confines of prog. Marillion, for example.

Most of us here at PA probably listen to a lot of music outside of prog as well. I know I do. (Currently playing as I type this is Sasha & Digweed's "Northern Exposure." :-)


Edited by jude111 - March 08 2013 at 10:36
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