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In what way did your prog favs let you down?
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horza View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:23
I can't think of any of my favourite prog bands which have not disappointed me in one way or another. It might have been an individual album track or an entire album, perhaps it was a line-up change that left me scratching my head in amazement.

Can you think of any examples?

I might start with Yes thinking that Trevor Horn (ex-The Buggles) was a suitable replacement for Jon Anderson.
Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Posts: 10075 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:29
Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.

King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.

Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.

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Posts: 7334 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:36
Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.
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Posts: 2530 		Post Options Post Options   Quote horza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:45
Originally posted by darkshade

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. Wink But it's OK, you can leave it.



Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify
Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Posts: 10075 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:49
You could have left it, I have no problem with it. I thought it was funny too.
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Posts: 32917 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:04
Originally posted by horza

Originally posted by darkshade

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. Wink But it's OK, you can leave it.



Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify

Systematic Chaos is one of my favourites too. A huge improvement on Octavarium in my eyes.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Posts: 32917 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:06
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Don't really agree with  that. he orchestrated it sure. And had some input in arrangement. Didn't write it  though.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Posts: 2530 		Post Options Post Options   Quote horza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:08
Originally posted by darkshade

You could have left it, I have no problem with it. I thought it was funny too.



De-rectified
Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Posts: 7334 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:14
Originally posted by Snow Dog


Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Don't really agree with  that. he orchestrated it sure. And had some input in arrangement. Didn't write it  though.


He didn't write it no, but he literally put the whole thing together. The Floyd guys each delivered something rather fragmented, and he glued it all together to form the whole as we know it today. He was also in charge of the choral arrangement.
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Posts: 32917 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:30
^not what i read.
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Posts: 1801 		Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:31
Originally posted by horza

I can't think of any of my favourite prog bands which have not disappointed me in one way or another. It might have been an individual album track or an entire album, perhaps it was a line-up change that left me scratching my head in amazement.

Can you think of any examples?

I might start with Yes thinking that Trevor Horn (ex-The Buggles) was a suitable replacement for Jon Anderson.

I agree!  In fact, Yes continues to disappoint without Jon Anderson, at least with Benoit David.  Jon Davison is a very good stand-in for Anderson, but they are not the same....Downes just doesn't have the chops from what I've heard.  I also don't like their proclivity to play only for casino theaters in the USA, there are many fine venues that are more accessible.  

Major record disappointments for me included "Drama" (putting me at odds with most on PA it would appear),  "Union," and  "Big Generator." 

I wish Yes had stuck to the formula that created "Tales from Topographic Oceans"!   Over-reach, spiritual themes etc. They made their best music when they pushed themselves to their personal limits.

Creative tension can work wonders in the rock studio, I've experienced it many times.  It's not a recording session until at least one breakable object is broken!  


Edited by cstack3 - March 10 2013 at 14:33
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Posts: 7334 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:43
Originally posted by Snow Dog

^not what i read.


I am pretty certain. Saw an interview with Geesin a little while back, that sounded very honest. The only thing he regrets about it all, is the fact that he didn't have more time with the choir, because he felt he could've gotten even more out it.
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Sometimes I find Martin Barre doesn't vary his tone enough in early Tull.
I really dislike King Crimson's Beat. 
Rush's music videos. LOL
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Tha Mars Volta after making 3 wonderful albums (De-Loused in the Comatorium, Frances the Mute and Amputechture) weren't the same anymore. The Bedlam in Goliath , Octahedron and Noctourniquet (despite liking some tracks) are just "Meh" albums.

It is still sad that the band broke up, I had the hope they returned to the good ol' days.
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Posts: 10075 		Post Options Post Options   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 15:37
Octahedron is the only album that disappointed for me. Bedlam was an onslaught and kicked ass, and Noctourniquet is quite possibly their most progressive album.
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Posts: 1238 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 15:55
Rush after Hold Your Fire, Genesis after Duke, Yes when Trevor Rabin replaced Steve Howe, ELP when they went "orchestra", Marillion when Fish left the boat, Pink Floyd when they did "The Wall".  


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Posts: 2530 		Post Options Post Options   Quote horza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:10
Originally posted by rdtprog

Rush after Hold Your Fire, Genesis after Duke, Yes when Trevor Rabin replaced Steve Howe, ELP when they went "orchestra", Marillion when Fish left the boat, Pink Floyd when they did "The Wall".  



Agreed re: Genesis after Duke.

I was disappointed with how Waters treated Richard Wright @ "The Wall".
Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Posts: 11017 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:13
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.
This, this and this.
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Posts: 11017 		Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:17
I actually have a thread idea I've been tossing around.  I've noticed that a lot of times when I get into a current band, I seem to catch them right at their peak, and then each succeeding album moves further and further from what excited me about them in the first place.  But in the end it just feels like I'm being selfish and expecting bands to stay in one place of my own devising, which isn't really fair.
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Posts: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:17
I discovered prog at a bad time.  Virtually every new album by artists I had just discovered was a disappointment:

Mike Oldfield - Platinum
Jethro Tull - A
Asia
Genesis - Abacab
Yes - 90125

I was initially perplexed by KC's Discipline but I came round to that one and I now regard it as a classic (unlike any of those mentioned above).
Bob
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