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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20451
Posted: May 17 2016 at 15:23
Catcher10 wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Geesh....everyone is so...technical , when it comes to this.
I have a dedicated stereo room and I have my old classic system from about 30 years ago :
Onkyo turntable, Ortofon cartridge, Onkyo receiver/amp, Sony cd player....2 classic Advent speakers and two custom made Nubian speakers ( from Indiana University -40 years old now...) and it all still works fine.
I have wanted to upgrade things especially the speakers for many years but it all still sounds ok....so why bother?
Mostly listen to music these days on Shure headphones (srh440) thru the laptop or in my car cd player and system on the way to work...std Honda Accord stuff....but it sounds pretty good.
That's all that matters.....listening to music. My system is a hobby, so I allocate funds for this hobby as anyone does with a hobby. There is a lot of cuckoo stuff that goes on in audio, there always has been and there always will be.
I am not saying what Oliver discusses is cuckoo, he states some valid stuff. It really boils down to how deep you get into the audio hobby and trying to pull out as much goodness from your gear, tweaking as we call it. You don't have to spend gobs of money to have a nice sounding system, tweaks can be cheap to free...
I enjoy great sounding audio, but not to the point of over spending, I prefer to find gear that performs over price point, 80% of the way is more than good enough. It's this last 20% that will drive you nuts and cause you to over spend.
Finding an audio store and go listen to new gear and what is out there today will give you a perspective and idea on what you want to add/change/upgrade....or not, you might feel with your current system you are 80% there.
Speakers will always give you the most improvement to sound...I always say you will be surprised as to what is hiding in the grooves of both vinyl and CDs when you make an upgrade.
But above all, have fun listening to music.
Been wanting to upgrade the speakers for many years....just lazy I guess.
There aren't any music stores near me and I'll have to drive into Chicago. Been thinking about Polk and Klipsch speakers. What other ones are decent at a reasonable price?
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: May 17 2016 at 16:12
^ If you go to Chicago go to Music Direct, check their website also, a lot of times they have demos at good prices and even used. Good selection of speakers but hard to suggest anything without understanding your budget.
Klipsch in general are good, with high sensitivity rating meaning they are easy to drive with low power amps. Polk, I think is a bit the reverse, low sensitivity so you will need more power to drive them efficiently. Stay away from the Klipsch and Polk at BestBuy, those are low quality made for volume sales and really more for home theater.
Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 3654
Posted: May 17 2016 at 16:59
^^ I must say the speakers are the most difficult element to choose, and no way you can properly do it only by looking at the brand's name and/or by someone's recommendation (sorry, Catcher10) even less so by reading specifications or technical reviews, of course.
One HAS to hear them in the room where they are going to play, no other sure method believe me. Even two apparently identical rooms have unexpected different influences on the overall sound you will get. No substitute then for testing them with your gear and in your actual listening spot, I myself only got them right on the third trial. If you can't arrange with the store they let you test before you buy, better opt for headphones (and spend much less)
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: May 18 2016 at 09:12
Quinino wrote:
^^ I must say the speakers are the most difficult element to choose, and no way you can properly do it only by looking at the brand's name and/or by someone's recommendation (sorry, Catcher10) even less so by reading specifications or technical reviews, of course.
One HAS to hear them in the room where they are going to play, no other sure method believe me. Even two apparently identical rooms have unexpected different influences on the overall sound you will get. No substitute then for testing them with your gear and in your actual listening spot, I myself only got them right on the third trial. If you can't arrange with the store they let you test before you buy, better opt for headphones (and spend much less)
I'm sorry....where did I state "buy these off the internet sight/heard unseen.."?? Recommendations are a perfect way to narrow down your list, as long as it comes from a user who understands how to explain the sound quality of a speaker. You MUST pay attention to the specs of a speaker, if you do not you could find yourself with a bad match between amplifier and speakers.
I suggested going to Music Direct in Chicago because they are a large online audio/music retailer, they have a large warehouse and they offer a 60 Day Money back guarantee, they actually will push you on this for speakers to make sure you are satisfied with the sound after a couple months....If not you can send them back. I have done a lot of business with MD and they are a class act.
So sorry Quinino, you should read posts better. Ohh and listening to music on headphones as your main source will ruin your ears.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
Posted: May 18 2016 at 09:33
Dean wrote:
not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved...
however...
Catcher10 wrote:
You MUST pay attention to the specs of a speaker, if you do not you could find yourself with a bad match between amplifier and speakers.
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: May 18 2016 at 11:11
Dean wrote:
Dean wrote:
not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved, not getting involved...
however...
Catcher10 wrote:
You MUST pay attention to the specs of a speaker, if you do not you could find yourself with a bad match between amplifier and speakers.
any specific parameters you have in mind here?
I tend to pay attention to sensitivity (efficiency) rating of a speaker, when matching to my amplifier. I prefer a higher rating like 89-92dB rather than say 87dB or below. My current speaker is rated at 90dB, you don't need a huge amp with 200wpc to power them efficiently, I'm over stating here of course, I don't see any need for 200wpc amp, unless you are driving low efficient speakers or just want a big power amp, which is also fine.
Higher sensitivity pairs well with some of the flea power tube amps that put out like 5-10wpc.....I like more watts than that though...but that is just me, my current amp is rated at 80wpc and that is more than enough.
On specs that's about it, freq response is kinda meaningless to me, as long as they test to go below 50Hz I'm good with that.......After that I tend to look at who who mfg the drivers and then build quality.
Joined: June 26 2011
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 3654
Posted: May 18 2016 at 11:46
^ Hey Catcher, sorry if I seemed to be argumenting against your recommendations, it isn't surely the case, only meant to reinforce the fundamental importance of the ultimate test - your own ears and the room where you will do the listening. Sensitivity match? Of course ! And looks ? Naturally, beauty is paramont.
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20451
Posted: May 18 2016 at 14:27
Catcher10 wrote:
^ If you go to Chicago go to Music Direct, check their website also, a lot of times they have demos at good prices and even used. Good selection of speakers but hard to suggest anything without understanding your budget.
Klipsch in general are good, with high sensitivity rating meaning they are easy to drive with low power amps. Polk, I think is a bit the reverse, low sensitivity so you will need more power to drive them efficiently. Stay away from the Klipsch and Polk at BestBuy, those are low quality made for volume sales and really more for home theater.
Wharfdale has good value in speakers also.
Thanks for the advice.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
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Points: 17490
Posted: May 18 2016 at 15:19
Not suggesting anyone do this but this is a cool demonstration of how much power this particular speaker is handling, the Harbeth 40.1 Monitors, these are low sensitivity speakers, so they do need plenty to make them sing.
You can look up the price of Harbeth's, I would not mind a pair but not at those prices , especially knowing I would need a 200wpc amp to boot. For me the important point is if you really want to hear the dynamics of music and what is hiding in the background, a well mated amp and speakers is critical.
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Posted: May 19 2016 at 09:50
Catcher10 wrote:
I tend to pay attention to sensitivity (efficiency) rating of a speaker, when matching to my amplifier. I prefer a higher rating like 89-92dB rather than say 87dB or below. My current speaker is rated at 90dB, you don't need a huge amp with 200wpc to power them efficiently, I'm over stating here of course, I don't see any need for 200wpc amp, unless you are driving low efficient speakers or just want a big power amp, which is also fine.
Higher sensitivity pairs well with some of the flea power tube amps that put out like 5-10wpc.....I like more watts than that though...but that is just me, my current amp is rated at 80wpc and that is more than enough.
On specs that's about it, freq response is kinda meaningless to me, as long as they test to go below 50Hz I'm good with that.......After that I tend to look at who who mfg the drivers and then build quality.
Anything I miss with those points Dean?
Hmm... yes, but I have a feeling that neither you nor anyone else wants to endure another long-winded technical lecture from me so I'll smile politely and keep quiet.
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Posted: May 19 2016 at 11:24
Catcher10 wrote:
Not suggesting anyone do this but this is a cool demonstration of how much power this particular speaker is handling, the Harbeth 40.1 Monitors, these are low sensitivity speakers, so they do need plenty to make them sing.
That's one interpretation of the demonstration. It's the wrong one but if that's the one you want to believe then so be it.
Joined: December 23 2009
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Points: 17490
Posted: May 19 2016 at 21:13
Dean wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
I tend to pay attention to sensitivity (efficiency) rating of a speaker, when matching to my amplifier. I prefer a higher rating like 89-92dB rather than say 87dB or below. My current speaker is rated at 90dB, you don't need a huge amp with 200wpc to power them efficiently, I'm over stating here of course, I don't see any need for 200wpc amp, unless you are driving low efficient speakers or just want a big power amp, which is also fine.
Higher sensitivity pairs well with some of the flea power tube amps that put out like 5-10wpc.....I like more watts than that though...but that is just me, my current amp is rated at 80wpc and that is more than enough.
On specs that's about it, freq response is kinda meaningless to me, as long as they test to go below 50Hz I'm good with that.......After that I tend to look at who who mfg the drivers and then build quality.
Anything I miss with those points Dean?
Hmm... yes, but I have a feeling that neither you nor anyone else wants to endure another long-winded technical lecture from me so I'll smile politely and keep quiet.
All I am saying is that is all I generally look for in speakers, it helps me create a short list of ones I want to go hear which is the ultimate decision factor for me....my ears. I would never chose speakers based on specs alone.
I have no issue with you expressing your opinion, I read tons of posts on several audio only sites. Some is good some is bad, so I doubt anything you write would wrinkle my feathers, I am pretty sure I have read both extremes on many topics
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17490
Posted: May 19 2016 at 21:45
Dean wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Not suggesting anyone do this but this is a cool demonstration of how much power this particular speaker is handling, the Harbeth 40.1 Monitors, these are low sensitivity speakers, so they do need plenty to make them sing.
That's one interpretation of the demonstration. It's the wrong one but if that's the one you want to believe then so be it.
I have been to many demonstrations in the past and have heard the difference a low sensitivity speaker sounds like with low wattage amps and high wattage amps. I also realize the higher rated speakers don't need as much wattage to get to a higher dB as the low sensitivity speakers might need....Not that I have any desire to get my speakers to say 95-98dB listening levels. I can only imagine what the dB level in that room was of the demonstration, nobody listens to music that loud, I will guess about 110dB..guessing, you have the knowledge to figure it out.
The demos I have been to were very normal to lower listening levels, I am not saying one is more right than the other either, its a preference.
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: May 20 2016 at 01:24
Catcher10 wrote:
Dean wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Not suggesting anyone do this but this is a cool demonstration of how much power this particular speaker is handling, the Harbeth 40.1 Monitors, these are low sensitivity speakers, so they do need plenty to make them sing.
That's one interpretation of the demonstration. It's the wrong one but if that's the one you want to believe then so be it.
I have been to many demonstrations in the past and have heard the difference a low sensitivity speaker sounds like with low wattage amps and high wattage amps. I also realize the higher rated speakers don't need as much wattage to get to a higher dB as the low sensitivity speakers might need....Not that I have any desire to get my speakers to say 95-98dB listening levels. I can only imagine what the dB level in that room was of the demonstration, nobody listens to music that loud, I will guess about 110dB..guessing, you have the knowledge to figure it out.
The demos I have been to were very normal to lower listening levels, I am not saying one is more right than the other either, its a preference.
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
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Points: 17490
Posted: May 20 2016 at 08:20
^ Free site...you can post whatever you feel. If I were mickey, I would say.."let it out man, let it flow your busting at the seams, release it dude!!"
There is not much you could write that would ruffle my feathers, I have read scathing audio threads on other sites that would put what you, I and others on this topic on this site have discussed in recent years to a pre-k level. I stay away from that but it is entertaining to read, occasionally you do learn something.
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: May 21 2016 at 03:04
Catcher10 wrote:
^ Free site...you can post whatever you feel. If I were mickey, I would say.."let it out man, let it flow your busting at the seams, release it dude!!"
There is not much you could write that would ruffle my feathers, I have read scathing audio threads on other sites that would put what you, I and others on this topic on this site have discussed in recent years to a pre-k level. I stay away from that but it is entertaining to read, occasionally you do learn something.
If the technical content is accurate and factually correct then I'm not concerned by anything anyone posts anywhere. However, I have come to accept that most of the people who pontificate on such matters on the internet are from a non-technical background and have a poor understanding of the subject. Even as a professional with 45 years experience and significantly better than pre-k education in parametric measurement I am aware that I don't know everything there is to know, but fortunately the wealth of knowledge I do have allows me to analyse apparent technical statements and ignore the inaccurate nonsense. Regardless of how convincing an internet pundit may sound, when they are being inaccurate and incorrect whatever you learn from them is merely propagating misinformation.Sensitivity is just another in a long list of misunderstood and misrepresented technical parameters that audio enthusiasts latch on to and misuse - equating sensitivity to efficiency illustrates that perfectly.
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
Posted: May 24 2016 at 12:32
Vompatti wrote:
I rip my CDs and listen to them on a surge-protected computer through these very high fidelity Logitech speakers, and I have a separate surge-protected Philips stereo set for records and cassettes, but if there was a convenient way to combine the two and get rid of one pair of speakers I'd probably do that.
Computer playback is too lo-fi to be affected by such factor
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Catcher10 wrote:
any specific parameters you have in mind here? 
, especially knowing I would need a 200wpc amp to boot. For me the important point is if you really want to hear the dynamics of music and what is hiding in the background, a well mated amp and speakers is critical.