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Prog clichés |
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Stool Man 
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Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Online Status: Offline Posts: 1189 |
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 Topic: Prog clichésPosted: March 21 2013 at 04:13 |
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There are clichés in everything, of course. But what are the clichés of progressive rock?
I'd say, for example, that dividing a long piece of music into multiple sections and just calling each "Part I", "Part II", "Part III", "Part IV", etc is a cliché. Having a melody that only appears at the beginning and the end but nowhere in between is another cliché. Your suggestions are welcome. Please try to avoid picking on bands you don't like, let's keep it general.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Ajay
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Joined: February 01 2013 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 221 |
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 04:38 |
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Playing bass like Chris Squire.
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Dayvenkirq
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Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Sparks, NV, USA Online Status: Offline Posts: 7350 |
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 04:41 |
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- Sounding to some extent like the prog giants (Genesis, Yes, KC) is very much cliched. Steven Wilson pulled that a lot on Grace and The Raven. A lot of Genesising and Hacketteering married with his brand of experimentation and songwriting.
- The use of the Mellotron, Hammond, and the (Mini-)Moog. - Someone mentioned a few months ago that combining experimentation, improvisation, and classical influences can really do the trick. (Not always the case, like with Popol Vuh's Hosianna Mantra.)
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 21 2013 at 05:30 |
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"Composing itself, in a way, is a simplifying process, just trying to pick some (strands?) out [of] the clamour in the head." - Robert Wyatt.
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rdtprog
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:07 |
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Plenty of 7 minutes song or higher with some Jazzy parts and a bunch of new sounds. Maybe, prog rock is a big cliché, after all...
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“Art is the proper task of life. ” ― Friedrich Nietzsche "I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens". - Woody Allen |
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Stool Man
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Joined: January 30 2007 Location: Anti-Cool (anag Online Status: Offline Posts: 1189 |
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:26 |
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No, Prog is an exception among clichés - most other styles of popular song last about three minutes, and have a verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/verse/chorus structure, whether they're ballads or rockers, funky or folky. To quote the man who turned down The Beatles in 1962 - "guitar bands are on the way out". Now add another fifty years of guitar bands to that. The world of prog is comparatively free of clichés, but this topic is about spotting those clichés that are particular to prog.
Edited by Stool Man - March 21 2013 at 05:29 |
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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zeqexes
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:26 |
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Having a 15 - 25 minute song at the end of an album (especially evident in modern prog)
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Sing to me, Raven...
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:29 |
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"Composing itself, in a way, is a simplifying process, just trying to pick some (strands?) out [of] the clamour in the head." - Robert Wyatt.
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Stool Man
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:31 |
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OK, then - this topic can help us find out if it is or not?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:33 |
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- Freedom and insanity reflected in the use of extraordinary melodies, chords (A5/C, Eb5sus4add9add11add13, etc., which might hint at contemporary classical music), rhythms, etc.
- (Crappy, vague, universal-anthemic) philosophical lyrics. - Concepts (well-thought-out ... and the opposite). - Daring artwork (well-thought-out ... and the opposite). - Occasional instrumental filler.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - March 21 2013 at 05:41 |
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"Composing itself, in a way, is a simplifying process, just trying to pick some (strands?) out [of] the clamour in the head." - Robert Wyatt.
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Morsenator
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Joined: December 13 2009 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 330 |
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:52 |
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Pretending to be completely free of clichés, as if "inventing a new genre" (which someone probably did five years before the band in question started doing that kind of music) or complaining how "today's music is so devoid of new ideas" (except for the music they're making, of course) is itself pretty much a cliché by now.
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Falling stars, dueling oboes and unconscious prayers - Rain Before the Morning out now!
http://moonsofjupiter.bandcamp.com/ |
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Quirky Turkey
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:56 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwyj3D13QhA
This includes a few. |
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Gerinski
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 05:58 |
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- polyrythms
- having different parts of a song series in different albums - using church pipe organ sound in a rock context - guitar solos inspired by David Gilmour's - singing about cosmic universal love instead of a man&woman's love
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rdtprog
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 06:03 |
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Can Prog could be totally free of clichés? Maybe not, but i went pretty deep in his superficiality to know that the essence of Prog could be on his trend to avoid all clichés by experimenting with new genres. |
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“Art is the proper task of life. ” ― Friedrich Nietzsche "I am not afraid of Death, I just don't want to be there when it happens". - Woody Allen |
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chopper
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 07:38 |
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An album cover featuring floating islands or some variation thereof.
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 07:44 |
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The people who create cliches are always far more important than the talentless hacks who recognize the phenomenon being subsequently repeated by others e.g. Dylan, Floyd and the Beatles could be considered the primal movers and shakers for what would become our beloved Prog
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HolyMoly
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 07:56 |
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Having lyrics incorporating plots and/or characters derived from fantasy books (e.g. Lord of the Rings) is a well worn prog cliche, at least in its early days.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 08:00 |
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The idea of levitating music to be something more than 1-2-3 let's boogie - and that it in itself could be considered an art form.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Blacksword
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 08:15 |
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Tony Banks once said that he felt Wind & Wuthering fell into 'predictable swirling dynamics' I guess 'swirling dynamics' is a prog cliche, but it's one I happen to love..
That said I don't want to hear modern prog bands playing around with the cliches of old, I'd rather they invented some new ones, in the true spirit of progression. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Progosopher
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Joined: May 12 2009 Location: The other shore Online Status: Offline Posts: 2465 |
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 09:37 |
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Playing 20 notes in a second of time when a mere 10 will do . . . or even one.
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After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley
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Ambient Hurricanes
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Posted: March 21 2013 at 09:48 |
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The Free Online Dictionary defines cliche as "A trite or overused expression or idea", further explaining that the word denotes "an expression or idea that has lost its originality or force through overuse". I think some of the responders are mistaking "common themes/tropes" for "cliches." Profound lyrics about universal love/philosophy will always be poignant (as long as they're done well!), concept albums don't lose their resonancy because many of them are made, complex musical ideas have been used for hundreds of years and didn't become cliche in jazz or classical music.
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"The hero's journey is the journey from strength to weakness."
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