Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Prog clichés
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Prog clichés

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
Author
Message
The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 29 2013
Location: Olympia, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 2545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 19:21
Originally posted by Rando Rando wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

There are clichés in everything, of course.  But what are the clichés of progressive rock? 
 


Rock Music Critics & Journalists that hate Prog are cliches of Progressive Rock. Tongue

Smile

"Definition of rock journalism:  People who can't write, doing interviews with people who can't think, in order to prepare articles for people who can't read." - Frank Zappa
I'm using the chicken to measure it.
Back to Top
CKnoxW View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 20 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 117
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CKnoxW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2013 at 20:14
Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

...In that sense, I hear a lot of cliche's in some of the newer prog
that isn't going in a direction like Yes and Genesis did in their own way, or pleasant
classical like ELP and others, and seems to be cliche in the way that other modern
rock is going, that is, its kind of dark, negative, depressing, kind of like watching a horror
movie only it's music.   You see this in a lot of prog metal.  To some people, you have to do that to
be creative, but that's really sophmoric. It's like these people are being fed by TV culture.
They should spend more time a a library. 


This. Dream Theater started it, now every prog metal band sounds like them. Not just a little bit, JUST like DT.
Back to Top
I-Juca Pirama View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 25 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 103
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-Juca Pirama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2013 at 20:47
Wow, never thought DT so sad, but almost every progmetal today seems to be made to cry, think seriously about life, etc.

That's why I like A.C.T!
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 2385
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2013 at 22:26
The use of mythological deities as an allegorical device.
Please pay a visit to my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music reviews, literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
Back to Top
kingesis2 View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: December 21 2012
Location: Tijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingesis2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2013 at 10:42
Playing a Gibson guitar (Steve Howe, Steve Hackett, Alex Lifeson, Robert Fripp Martin Barre), like you said playing a Rickenbacker bass with Rotosound Strings (Mike Rutheford, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, even Cliff Burton), a big drum kit (like every prog drummer) and Hammonds, Mellotrons, Moogs (Like every keybordist)
"Cranberry sauce" The Beatles - Strawberry Fields Forever
Back to Top
matty3198 View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2013
Location: Bath
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty3198 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2013 at 19:16
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Anything by VDGG---LOL---(excuse me why I run and hide from attack)


I would say something similar about Tales From Topographic Oceans.
Back to Top
matty3198 View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2013
Location: Bath
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty3198 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2013 at 19:20
Originally posted by kingesis2 kingesis2 wrote:

Playing a Gibson guitar (Steve Howe, Steve Hackett, Alex Lifeson, Robert Fripp Martin Barre), like you said playing a Rickenbacker bass with Rotosound Strings (Mike Rutheford, Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, even Cliff Burton), a big drum kit (like every prog drummer) and Hammonds, Mellotrons, Moogs (Like every keybordist)


If your talking about big drum kits Terry Bozzio has that one nailed, he makes Neil Peart look modest.
Back to Top
proggman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 14 2013
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 974
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2013 at 21:43
I don't think there're any clichés in prog.




Edited by proggman - October 19 2013 at 21:48
Back to Top
proggman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 14 2013
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 974
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2013 at 21:45
[/QUOTE]

"Definition of rock journalism:  People who can't write, doing interviews with people who can't think, in order to prepare articles for people who can't read." - Frank Zappa
[/QUOTE]
Fantastic quote Frank Zappa really was a genius.
Back to Top
WeepingElf View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: August 18 2013
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeepingElf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2013 at 08:06
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

"Definition of rock journalism:  People who can't write, doing interviews with people who can't think, in order to prepare articles for people who can't read." - Frank Zappa


Zappa pretty much hit the nail on its head.

Face it: rock journalism is not about music.  It is about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll: sexual escapades of rock stars, drug problems of rock stars, and violence at concerts, from musicians smashing their guitars to riots in the audience.  And that's why rock journalists hate prog: it doesn't give them stories - the "boring old farts" syndrome.  Progressive rock musicians and fans are simply too disciplined - they must be in order to write, play and enjoy music of this kind of complexity ;)  Of course, that means that there would be enough to write about the music, but most rock journalists just don't really care about that.  A rock star ODing on heroin (preferably at age 27) gives them a story; a band doing a 20-minuter in sonata form doesn't.

... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
Back to Top
Prog_Traveller View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2005
Location: Bucks county PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1400
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2013 at 20:13
I hate to say it but it seems even many modern prog bands seem to hold on to certain prog cliches. I guess there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself but it depends on how it's done.

Based on what I've heard other people say I'd have to say some prog cliches are songs that are over 10 minutes long, obligatory use of the mellotron, musicians wearing capes, lyrics about wizards, fairies, dragons etc. I'm sure there are others.
Back to Top
cstack3 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2278
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2013 at 20:56
Goofy stage clothes, particularly capes, big/hairy boots, stuff that looks like medieval farmer togs, shiny lame etc. 

In other words - Tull, Yes and ELP.  Chris Squire is a particularly egregious offender!  
Back to Top
TODDLER View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: August 28 2009
Location: Vineland, N.J.
Status: Offline
Points: 2650
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2013 at 21:13
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

"Definition of rock journalism:  People who can't write, doing interviews with people who can't think, in order to prepare articles for people who can't read." - Frank Zappa


Zappa pretty much hit the nail on its head.

Face it: rock journalism is not about music.  It is about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll: sexual escapades of rock stars, drug problems of rock stars, and violence at concerts, from musicians smashing their guitars to riots in the audience.  And that's why rock journalists hate prog: it doesn't give them stories - the "boring old farts" syndrome.  Progressive rock musicians and fans are simply too disciplined - they must be in order to write, play and enjoy music of this kind of complexity ;)  Of course, that means that there would be enough to write about the music, but most rock journalists just don't really care about that.  A rock star ODing on heroin (preferably at age 27) gives them a story; a band doing a 20-minuter in sonata form doesn't.

This is all very true. I have friends who are journalists and no doubt..after the story/article is printed, they shoot for the bar and have a few drinks mocking Progressive Rock, laughing ignorantly at the talents of the musicians and thinking they are real cute and slick regarding what lies they print. Because believe it or not, they tend to make up lies about the mainstream rockers. They interview someone, record it, and plough through the sections of it deciding what to leave out and what specifically to change. All of those actions revolve around the determination to cement the "Rock Star" image THEY insist on rotating for the industry. It's all based on how a artist must be presented and how not. Who the H makes those stupied ignorant rules and why? when...during the late 60's the freedom of music had no barriers and there was no catch to a deal or signed contract unless it dealt with your royalities which of course was a record company scam. But the freedom in Rock music was widely accepted and the record companies respected the fact you were a seasoned musician then.
 
The journalists knew the musicians had that freedom granted to them by the record companies. They attempted to make the Prog bands of the 70's  seem cheesy and  bombastic to the youth and mocked their style of playing. Yet Progressive Rockers such as Keith Emerson, Ian Anderson, and Peter Gabriel were on the cover of Rock magazines sometimes more than David Bowie and T.Rex. So...the increased sales of magazines like "Circus" and "Hit Parader" came about because of a stage shot of Emerson riding his organ or Anderson leaping into the air. So you see, they were just using the proggers in that sense. I'm just content to have discovered Univers Zero.
Back to Top
Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toaster Mantis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 02:47
All niche genres look weird and goofy to people outside the intended audience. Prog's no different from country, hip-hop, industrial, metal, punk etc. in that regard though I guess it's a bit easier to make fun of since its peak popularity was longer ago than most of those I just mentioned.
"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 08:46
Hi,
 
I was thinking a bit!
 
How cliche we all are!
 
To think that we have to have an opinion on everything, including how much crap we have and don't like!
 
Party


Edited by moshkito - October 21 2013 at 08:47
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Chozal View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 01 2011
Location: Melun, France
Status: Offline
Points: 187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chozal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 08:58
All technique and no feeling


The Infinite Progability Drive, feeding you daily progressive/weird music for just a like <3
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 09:10
Originally posted by Chozal Chozal wrote:

All technique and no feeling


 
NP: Bonzo Dog Band - The Drain
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
The Pessimist View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3797
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 10:19
Last three parts: church organ solo, complicated bit of carnage and then a big slow melodic guitar solo with pyrotechnics. This song is a perfect example.


"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
Back to Top
proggman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 14 2013
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 974
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2013 at 20:18
Dancing Mad is a great song.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 11015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2013 at 01:15
Originally posted by Chozal Chozal wrote:

All technique and no feeling



for that to be the case the music would have to be crafted by robots. All music has feeling, its just that we only think of feeling as being a positive thing. If someone is making something that is deliberately repetitive and cold then there is still feeling but we may feel alienated (although we are feeling something still).
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.096 seconds.