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Petition to get Jon Anderson back into Yes

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Earendil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earendil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 01:14
Originally posted by twosteves twosteves wrote:

Jon as a songwriter has not been very good for some time

I disagree.  Jon released this 20 minute epic in 2011, and I think it's really good.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote humor4u1959 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 02:29
Uh, for those of you who don't know this, Chris Squire owns the name of Yes. He can tour with any group of musicians and call them Yes. I don't know how this all came about. But, this is why it was Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe, and not Yes. They couldn't use the name.

It's kinda funny though, since he wrote very little of their best material. Plus, his bass sounds so tinny. McCartney used a Rick with a pick too, for years and his bass had bottom. Squire must like his bass sounding like a guitar. When I saw them, the band had absolutely no bottom at all. Like a small transistor radio.

Jon Anderson is best off staying away from this old, tired band. Just my opinion. If I offend, sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 03:10
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Since they are in indeed in their sixties already, the question is should it be fussed about so much.  By this logic, if one of the persons who co created the music dies, the band should never play again.  I know Led Zep did make that decision (doh, they reunited too!!! LOL) but it is not a kind of thinking I agree with.   Performance of a piece of music exists independent of the act of conceiving it.  If rock does not accept performance as a legitimate form of art divorced from personalities and names, it will never become 'timeless'.   And Jon Anderson was one part of ABWH so that argument is tenuous anyway. 
While in agree in principle, it is true that for a band of the relevance of Yes they might want to consider how do they want to finish their career as the Yes band

a) with some kind of 'celebration of Yes career' event, for example a one-time macro-concert with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman filmed for posterity.
If they want to continue releasing music and touring after that, they can always do it under the name 'Davison, Howe, Squire & White' or whatever (and playing Yes songs live if they want to, of course). Fans know them well enough that they will still buy their new albums and go to their shows.

b) gradually diluting into line-up changes and finish with a few more albums and tours under the name Yes but a 'Yes' which will be controversial for many fan and may probably not provide any sense of 'big farewell celebration' when they finally stop (and possibly a decaying quality of the music?).

I have no problem that Squire and Co feel like still playing and releasing music for a few more years, I'm glad they do, but as the mighty Yes band I would prefer that they would honour it and be remembered with the 'a)' style farewell.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 03:57
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Since they are in indeed in their sixties already, the question is should it be fussed about so much.  By this logic, if one of the persons who co created the music dies, the band should never play again.  I know Led Zep did make that decision (doh, they reunited too!!! LOL) but it is not a kind of thinking I agree with.   Performance of a piece of music exists independent of the act of conceiving it.  If rock does not accept performance as a legitimate form of art divorced from personalities and names, it will never become 'timeless'.   And Jon Anderson was one part of ABWH so that argument is tenuous anyway. 
While in agree in principle, it is true that for a band of the relevance of Yes they might want to consider how do they want to finish their career as the Yes band

a) with some kind of 'celebration of Yes career' event, for example a one-time macro-concert with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman filmed for posterity.
If they want to continue releasing music and touring after that, they can always do it under the name 'Davison, Howe, Squire & White' or whatever (and playing Yes songs live if they want to, of course). Fans know them well enough that they will still buy their new albums and go to their shows.

b) gradually diluting into line-up changes and finish with a few more albums and tours under the name Yes but a 'Yes' which will be controversial for many fan and may probably not provide any sense of 'big farewell celebration' when they finally stop (and possibly a decaying quality of the music?).

I have no problem that Squire and Co feel like still playing and releasing music for a few more years, I'm glad they do, but as the mighty Yes band I would prefer that they would honour it and be remembered with the 'a)' style farewell.


I saw their 35th Anniversary show in Chicago in 2004 and thought it was perhaps the best Yes concert I had seen (dating back to the CTTE tour, 1972).  The guys seemed especially connected and jovial, they were innovative (doing an acoustic version of "Roundabout" etc.), and on-the-money, performance-wise.  Anderson's voice was in perfect form.  

I've resisted seeing the Benoit David/Jon Davison versions of Yes simply because I do not want to spoil my memory of that show.  In my opinion, that should have been their retirement tour.  They would have been free to re-group in different ways and perform the music of Yes (as Anderson did with his nice "Voice of Yes" tour), instead of dragging this thing on and on.  

Squire is making old fans like me very angry with his insistence that he, and only he, is Yes.  During Anderson's "Voice of Yes" show, he made it quite clear that he was not disposed to rejoin the band.  His feelings were very hurt, and I think his treatment by bandmates was very shabby.  I suppose Squire will drag this mess around until no one can play anymore, just like countless other bands that have degenerated into shells of their former selves.  Always hard to watch.  

The only reunion that might really stir my interest would be a swan-song TFTO show or tour, with the original cast.  That might be brilliant & a real money-maker for the band.  Short of that, I see a gradual falling to earth.  Howe already sounds tired of it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 04:10
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


While in agree in principle, it is true that for a band of the relevance of Yes they might want to consider how do they want to finish their career as the Yes band

a) with some kind of 'celebration of Yes career' event, for example a one-time macro-concert with Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman filmed for posterity.
If they want to continue releasing music and touring after that, they can always do it under the name 'Davison, Howe, Squire & White' or whatever (and playing Yes songs live if they want to, of course). Fans know them well enough that they will still buy their new albums and go to their shows.

b) gradually diluting into line-up changes and finish with a few more albums and tours under the name Yes but a 'Yes' which will be controversial for many fan and may probably not provide any sense of 'big farewell celebration' when they finally stop (and possibly a decaying quality of the music?).

I have no problem that Squire and Co feel like still playing and releasing music for a few more years, I'm glad they do, but as the mighty Yes band I would prefer that they would honour it and be remembered with the 'a)' style farewell.



Bands can either choose to fade away and die out or keep the legacy going.  Why should a band's existence have to depend heavily on the presence of one or more members in it?   Doesn't the music itself, the compositions they put together, have a life beyond them?  If a band is just about the members who made it up and nothing more, they might as well call all bands by the names of their members (shortened Tongue) instead of choosing a moniker, which implies that it stands for something more.  I think it would be a great thing if they could carry on the legacy with the help of some younger limbs.  It doesn't affect ME specifically because I can't see any of these bands in concert anyway.  But what about somebody from my generation, we too go out and get their albums and would like to be able to see them in concert.  Why should that be denied?

I think Yes fans should consider whether their bitter feelings have more to do with the manner in which Anderson has parted ways with the band or simply their obsession with getting to see him perform with Yes?  I suspect it's to do a good deal with the former and Squire's attitude.   In either event, it is the band's decision.  Don't like it, don't watch.  They cannot be compelled to do something against their wishes through a petition.    I remember when Shakti came down last year to India, some folks who were hardly 20 minutes away from the venue refused to go because L Shankar is no longer part of the lineup.  Ok, nevermind that another giant U Shrinivas replaced him (and he was fabulous that evening, as usual).  Even more amusing to me was that from the mere presence of Shankar Mahadevan in the lineup, they inferred that Shakti had now sold out and were just a lame, has been classic rock band (from the point of view of a fusion fan, mind).  Their loss, what can I say, it was an incredible experience that they missed.  Though I can somewhat understand where this obsession with personalities comes from, I guess I will never be able to completely relate to it, much less agree with it. 



Edited by rogerthat - April 21 2013 at 04:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 05:16
The Albion Band are great example of a band that changed its lineup many times over the years, and was recently revived with a 100% new lineup, led by the son of Ashely Hutchings
 
Outside of prog, nobody complains about The Glenn Miller Orchestra having none of the original members, or even any of their replacements.  There are many other such examples, including my own band


Edited by Stool Man - April 21 2013 at 05:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 05:25
^^  For a very famous example, Deep Purple have gone through so many different 'configurations' over the years that you can no longer tell which one member is indispensable to the band.  For some periods, they didn't have Gillan and Blackmore quit more or less for good somewhere down the line.   Who can say his replacement Steve Morse was an embarrassment; Morse is an amazing guitarist in his own right.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 05:45
Every band that has changed its line-up over the years will have what some fans will consider to be "the definitive" line-up and not all fans will necessarily agree on what that definitive line-up is. My favourite Yes album is Relayer by a very wide margin, but Anderson-Howe-Squire-Moraz-White would not be my definitive line-up. Singers always get the bum deal in a changing line-up because unlike a guitarist, drummer or keyboard player who can adapt, singer's are either unique or sound-a-likes (and a sound-a-like can never compare to the original) - In Marillion Hogarth was never going to be a Fish clone and that changed Marillion more than changing drummers did, and the same is true in Yes..




If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 06:52
Of course I have no problem with bands changing line-up, if they had to change name every time a member changes they would have run out of names long ago LOL

Never had any problem with all the Yes line-up changes during their history (well, maybe only some with Sherwood) but now they are approaching the end of their career (well maybe they would not agree but that's what many feel) so it's time to start thinking how do they want to end it (I mean as Yes the band, not as musicians) and how would they like Yes to be remembered.
Everybody knows that two top sportsmen of similar top achievements, one retiring on a high note and the other after a long pathetic decline down to oblivion will not be remembered in the same way for posterity.

They can still release music and tour, hopefully for many years to come (the recently deceased jazz pianist Bebo Valdes, aged 92, played still regularly and competently in his 80's) but I would find it sad to see a band of the relevance of Yes having a long, sad, declining and controversial fade out to death.

Of course it all depends on the music, as long as they stay releasing and playing great stuff, with whatever members, they are more than welcome!  the problem is that with the current line up with Downes and Squire, and Howe apparently not convinced about having good material for releasing new Yes material, we are all full of doubts. Alan White plays fine but stopped being an amazing drummer years ago. This would leave the whole weight of strong composition to Jon Davison, and as much as I respect him, the shoes might be too big for him.



Edited by Gerinski - April 21 2013 at 06:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:07
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Everybody knows that two top sportsmen of similar top achievements, one retiring on a high note and the other after a long pathetic decline down to oblivion will not be remembered in the same way for posterity.


idk, yes, I hear this line thrown about a lot but I don't know that Bjorn Borg is remembered any better than McEnroe, Connors, Edberg or Becker (all players who played well past their prime) for THAT reason.  If anything, some people find it a point of ridicule that he 'ran away' before losing more often to McEnroe.  

As for relevance, I agree with a view expressed earlier that Yes have not been too highly relevant for a long time.  Their last album featured about 70% material written by somebody in the 80s who is no longer with the band.  They are in it only to tour and play gigs.  If Jon Davison's younger set of pipes stand up to the requirements of touring, why not. 

I have seen some clips of the new Yes and I agree, it does not look particularly inspiring.  But the decision lies with the band...should they bring some new musicians and rejuvenate the band or should they keep going on with the older members.   I'd like to see them attempt the former but I don't really see that happening.  It would be nice if the legacy of a band as influential as Yes is handed over to a younger bunch to carry the mantle but it's most likely going to accompany Squire to his grave.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:12
No-one wants to witness Lionel Messi at 40 shuffling around the centre circle for Deportivo Paella in the Spanish 4th Division in front of 20 spectators and a stray dog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:16
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

No-one wants to witness Lionel Messi at 40 shuffling around the centre circle for Deportivo Paella in the Spanish 4th Division in front of 20 spectators and a stray dog.


If he loves football that much, why not?  It is we the spectators who make all these players or artists over into demi-god figures.  They didn't know they would get there when they started and they just keep playing.   If they don't get the gig anymore, they will have to quit anyway.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:28
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

No-one wants to witness Lionel Messi at 40 shuffling around the centre circle for Deportivo Paella in the Spanish 4th Division in front of 20 spectators and a stray dog.


If he loves football that much, why not?  It is we the spectators who make all these players or artists over into demi-god figures.  They didn't know they would get there when they started and they just keep playing.   If they don't get the gig anymore, they will have to quit anyway.  


OK, every intelligent artist comes to realize they have a shelf life. I would prefer this realization  to occur BEFORE they become parodies of themselves and force us to start petitions urging them to retire with dignity intact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:33
Maybe they do but that's for them to decide....would they rather do the only thing they have ever known and loved even if no longer as well as they once could or should they move on?  And if they move on, move on to what?  It is a tougher decision for an artist or sportsman than a member of the audience because he's heavily invested emotionally in the whole thing.  Mostly, they only quit when they have lost the motivation to do it on a fulltime, professional basis and make the commitments that go along with it.   In some cases, it happens to be BEFORE they have become the object of ridicule and some cases AFTER.  It doesn't follow that that has a bearing on their decision.  If they were that sensitive to criticism, they probably wouldn't have got to the top of the table in the first place, what with so many know it alls to tell them they are no good and can't possibly make it. 

Edited by rogerthat - April 21 2013 at 07:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:42
^ I think WE (the shelf fillers/emptiers) decide their shelf life
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 07:45
Yes, and I already said as much: "If they don't get the gig, they will have to quit anyway".    It's their choice to try, let them.  If the audience doesn't like it, they won't watch, they won't buy tickets and that will be the end of the story.  I wouldn't think the story of a great artist or a great in any other field revolves singularly around their last days.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 08:03
Cut to the chase: Your own choice of the words 'last days' implies that Yes are not only redundant, they are extinct. Your argument is that market forces will deliver the coup de grace. This is probably true at the end of any artist's life, but WE, on a (niche demographic) Prog Rock site can never use market forces as a justification for oblivion. This would be like puncturing the water wings of those who choose to swim against the mainstream tide. Are you asking us to be more compassionate and forgiving with multi millionaires with country retreats as if they were deserving aspirants forging their way through an unfriendly musical landscape?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 08:12
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Cut to the chase: Your own choice of the words 'last days' implies that Yes are not only redundant, they are extinct.


If a dinosaur is extinct, it doesn't disprove evidence in support of its strength.  Geek  Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, everybody has to die and unless it's somebody I know personally and care about, I am not going to agonize about it. 


Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Your argument is that market forces will deliver the coup de grace. This is probably true at the end of any artist's life, but WE, on a (niche demographic) Prog Rock site can never use market forces as a justification for oblivion.



There is nothing to justify here.  Oblivion just happens.  On the other hand, making up petitions is childish interference with their choices.  They never forced you to listen to them instead of somebody else though they are surely glad that a lot of people do.  

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


 Are you asking us to be more compassionate and forgiving with multi millionaires with country retreats as if they were deserving aspirants forging their way through an unfriendly musical landscape?


If I accept the market taking its course, I clearly cannot be unduly compassionate because I am well aware of what form said oblivion would take.    On the contrary, I sense some compassion in wanting to somehow persuade the band to quit so that a mythical image of their invincibility is forever frozen instead of letting the laws of nature operate.   They are adults, they cannot be told what to do.   Let them make their choices and own responsibility for it.   This business of 'maintaining' a band's glory may seem very important to fans who are in a position to observe their decline closely but in the larger scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.   In any case, I think the glory argument is made more to mask the emotional reaction of a fan to the decline of somebody (or bodies) who he/she held up as heroes.  


Edited by rogerthat - April 21 2013 at 08:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 09:15
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Maybe they do but that's for them to decide....would they rather do the only thing they have ever known and loved even if no longer as well as they once could or should they move on?  And if they move on, move on to what?  It is a tougher decision for an artist or sportsman than a member of the audience because he's heavily invested emotionally in the whole thing.  Mostly, they only quit when they have lost the motivation to do it on a fulltime, professional basis and make the commitments that go along with it.   In some cases, it happens to be BEFORE they have become the object of ridicule and some cases AFTER.  It doesn't follow that that has a bearing on their decision.  If they were that sensitive to criticism, they probably wouldn't have got to the top of the table in the first place, what with so many know it alls to tell them they are no good and can't possibly make it. 
I never said that they should stop their careers as musicians, I said clearly that I'm happy for them if they keep on composing and playing for many years. I said that I would prefer it if they did not use the Yes moniker for this last steps of the journey, and not because of their age but because with the current line-up and Howe's apparent opinions mentioned in the thread 'Is Yes recording a new album?' I don't think that they can still honour the Yes name as it deserves (and I hope I'm wrong).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 09:18
It wasn't a response to you but to Exitthelemming.   I am ok with fans preferring what they choose to prefer as long as it doesn't take the colour of trying to couch such impressions and reactions in objective terms, as if they are truths of wisdom. 


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