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richardh View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: US prog appreciation by non-US people
    Posted: May 01 2013 at 01:45
Kansas were very much an American band making prog. They didn't try to be too much like European bands and for that I commend them. Song For America is in particular a real gem. I love bands to write about their own country and the history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 10:34
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Please can somebody explain to this Brit the appeal of Kansas. 

This Yank sure cannot!  Their debut album was quite refreshing, but their output afterwards was quite inconsistent.   

However, they were better than most of the other US prog groups of the time, such as Starcaste. 

Now, would you explain to this Yank the appeal of Oasis?  (they were huge when I lived in Exeter, Devon in 1994!)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 03:39
Might as well add Phish, Primus, Mastodon, Mr.Bungle, Animals As Leaders and Periphery while im still at it. Only a fool would underestimate American prog.

EDIT: I promise i wont bump this thread anymore, but i just have to add Cynic and Captain Beefheart aswell!

Edited by Knapitatet - April 30 2013 at 04:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 03:10
I like Frank Zappa, The Mars Volta, Return To Forever, The Fall Of Troy, Coheed And Cambria, Planet X and i do count The Mahavishnu Orchestrah as an American group aswell.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2013 at 11:41
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

The thing that strikes me most when I listen to Kansas nowadays (loved them in my teens and 20's), is how hyperactive it all sounds.  There isn't a lot in the way of dynamics, except on the longer more proggy tracks.  Even then, they seem to have difficulty slowing down to any degree.

I think that, coupled with the higher register "arena rock" (or, as some Brits I know have said to me, "glam rock") vocals, is what turns off most non-Americans (and a lot of Americans, for that matter).  There is also the fact that the band seemed torn a lot of the time between symphonic prog rock and bluesy hard rock, but I think most people outside the USA have heard plenty of both types of music (though, again, Kansas do a very American take on the bluesy hard rock as well).

Still, I think they are worth giving some time, especially the first 4 albums and the Two For The Show live album, especially.


Somewhere to Elsewhere is one of their best albums so I wouldn't ignore that. I think you make an interesting point about dynamics in their music (or rather lack of it). When I first heard Point Of Know Return I was surprised by just how 'flat' it sounded but then I put that down to production more than anything else. I saw them live about 8 years ago and was very impressed . I liked their 'hyperactive' approach on that occasionSmile


Oh yeah, I enjoy it too, don't get me wrong.  I just think that might be a factor for non-US folks.  I have to admit, I've never heard Somewhere to Elsewhere Embarrassed  I guess I'm not a big enough fan to want to check it out before the tons of other stuff I want to hear.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2013 at 01:15
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

The thing that strikes me most when I listen to Kansas nowadays (loved them in my teens and 20's), is how hyperactive it all sounds.  There isn't a lot in the way of dynamics, except on the longer more proggy tracks.  Even then, they seem to have difficulty slowing down to any degree.

I think that, coupled with the higher register "arena rock" (or, as some Brits I know have said to me, "glam rock") vocals, is what turns off most non-Americans (and a lot of Americans, for that matter).  There is also the fact that the band seemed torn a lot of the time between symphonic prog rock and bluesy hard rock, but I think most people outside the USA have heard plenty of both types of music (though, again, Kansas do a very American take on the bluesy hard rock as well).

Still, I think they are worth giving some time, especially the first 4 albums and the Two For The Show live album, especially.


Somewhere to Elsewhere is one of their best albums so I wouldn't ignore that. I think you make an interesting point about dynamics in their music (or rather lack of it). When I first heard Point Of Know Return I was surprised by just how 'flat' it sounded but then I put that down to production more than anything else. I saw them live about 8 years ago and was very impressed . I liked their 'hyperactive' approach on that occasionSmile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2013 at 14:40
The thing that strikes me most when I listen to Kansas nowadays (loved them in my teens and 20's), is how hyperactive it all sounds.  There isn't a lot in the way of dynamics, except on the longer more proggy tracks.  Even then, they seem to have difficulty slowing down to any degree.

I think that, coupled with the higher register "arena rock" (or, as some Brits I know have said to me, "glam rock") vocals, is what turns off most non-Americans (and a lot of Americans, for that matter).  There is also the fact that the band seemed torn a lot of the time between symphonic prog rock and bluesy hard rock, but I think most people outside the USA have heard plenty of both types of music (though, again, Kansas do a very American take on the bluesy hard rock as well).

Still, I think they are worth giving some time, especially the first 4 albums and the Two For The Show live album, especially.



Edited by infandous - April 15 2013 at 14:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2013 at 02:13
My OP was three weeks ago, & I've since heard a few songs.  But thanks, I'll try what you suggested.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2013 at 01:46
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Please can somebody explain to this Brit the appeal of Kansas. 

Well, you said in the OP that you have never listened to them, so if that's the case the first thing is for you to give them a chance? 
Like many other respected classic bands they have had weak periods and also some of their songs have a clearly American-rock vibe which may not appeal to some non-US proggers, but they have made excellent music too.
Leftoverture or the live Two For The Show should be the best introduction IMO.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2013 at 15:38
Please can somebody explain to this Brit the appeal of Kansas. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 16:56
[QUOTE=Guldbamsen]Sorry my bad, I still hear the resemblance though.

Mass and Release I have and would perhaps call them closer to Krautrock - certainly experimental. 
Is it because you'd like to see The Prunes included on PA, if you don't mind me asking?
[/QUOTE

Yes, I would.  I don't think that one should say this guy David Axelrod is any kind of prog genius
who belongs in here.  If you listen to his work, it often sounds more like what later
became disco.  I don't know his body of work that well, and I think the work he did
with the Prunes is great, but the Prunes first two albums are great too, as rock
albums leading up to the development of Prog Rock. and expanding the sonic
palette of music. 

Axelrods albums with the prunes even if he wrote the piece, did not write the sonic
palette, didn't come up with the guitar effects, and so on.  It's a bit like Emerson
like Mussorgsky.  Listen to those two works and you'll hear a ton of differences.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 15:37
Sorry my bad, I still hear the resemblance though.

Mass and Release I have and would perhaps call them closer to Krautrock - certainly experimental. 
Is it because you'd like to see The Prunes included on PA, if you don't mind me asking?
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 15:33
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

I've been continuing my interview with James Lowe of the Electric Prunes and
I just got this from him:

From Dark Globe, Julian Palacios' biography (page 207) of Syd Barrett:


'Infused with a spirit of sudden discovery, 'Astronomy Domine' was a continual work in progress. Barrett tinkered with the song's construction right until the recording session, inspired by a single issued that week by American garage psychers the Electric Prunes. Its A-side, 'Get Me To The World On Time', was a minor hit climbing Radio London's chart. However, Barrett was riveted by the B-side, 'Are You Loving Me More (But Enjoying It Less)', he lifted the song's intro wholesale for 'Astronomy Domine'.'


I'd not made the link before but blindingly obvious now it has been pointed out to me. Any thoughts/recollections? Assumption made by the biographer? Did Barrett/Pink Floyd ever acknowledge it? Mere coincidence?




The Electric Prunes were from California.  I'm convinced the importance of seeing them

as a Prog band.






I find this very interesting, and as you yourself put it - it's rather obvious when you compare the two tracks.
I do however think that Floyd are here on PA because of their subsequent releases, and as much as Piper was overtly experimental and progressive, it's still heavily rooted in the psych rock from the sixties. As I see it, The Electric Prunes never underwent the same shift in their music, at least not towards the 'prog' we have come to call it later on.

That wasn't my quote, that was James Lowe, the singer saying that.

As far as the EP being prog, they have 2 concept albums in 1968.  Have you heard them? Mass and
Release?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 14:04
It's Bobby Beausoleil's soundtrack for the Kenneth Anger movie Lucifer Rising. You know, the Charles Manson affiliate who supposedly killed a drug dealer for selling him bum mescalin? He then proceeded to record this album from the insides of a jail cell - sending bits and pieces back and forth between him and the band - making this one of the first albums done by 'mail'.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 13:59
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Hey Nogbad.

Do you by any chance know of the three albums I just mentioned? Seeing your tastes, they'd probably fit you like a pair of gloves.
Thanks for the reco, I don't know them but will certainly check them out, what is the third one?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 13:55
Hey Nogbad.

Do you by any chance know of the three albums I just mentioned? Seeing your tastes, they'd probably fit you like a pair of gloves.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 13:51
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm an Englishman and have developed a fondness for US prog over the years, there's definitely a good US Avant scene. Amongst my favorites

Thinking Plague, Hamster Theater, 5UU's, Calle Debauche, The Nerve Institute, The Muffins, Herd Of Instincts, Alec Redfearn & The Eyesores, Zevious, Algernon, The Aristocrats, Behold ... The Arctopus, Tool, U Totem, Far Corner, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Steve Tibbetts, Electric Masada, Secret Chiefs 3, MoeTar, Mirthkon, Cheer-Accident, Decemberists, Djam Karet, Moraine.

Phew, I thinks that's plenty of good listening
You haven't added "Herd of Instinct"? ... shame on you!
 They're in my list, I seem to remember suggesting they be added here when the first album came out and getting slapped down as they'd been suggested before. Great band, love the new album.


Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - March 27 2013 at 13:53
Ian

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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 12:39
Oh oh oh I know, we've completely forgotten about this one as well:
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 10:51
He also forgot about two brethren of the German kosmische traditionWink

Moolah:

Friendsound:


Like I said, both of these genuinely sound like they were made ca 1971 Germany, and whereas the Moolah album sports an early spooky industrial atmosphere . there's still that wonderful playful almost naive approach to the instruments that colours much of the Friendsound album. Two very imaginative albums, and I can't believe they've been forgotten about.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2013 at 10:30
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I'm an Englishman and have developed a fondness for US prog over the years, there's definitely a good US Avant scene. Amongst my favorites

Thinking Plague, Hamster Theater, 5UU's, Calle Debauche, The Nerve Institute, The Muffins, Herd Of Instincts, Alec Redfearn & The Eyesores, Zevious, Algernon, The Aristocrats, Behold ... The Arctopus, Tool, U Totem, Far Corner, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Steve Tibbetts, Electric Masada, Secret Chiefs 3, MoeTar, Mirthkon, Cheer-Accident, Decemberists, Djam Karet, Moraine.

Phew, I thinks that's plenty of good listening
 
You haven't added "Herd of Instinct"? ... shame on you!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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