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Pandora thinks Steely Dan is Muzak

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axeman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pandora thinks Steely Dan is Muzak
    Posted: March 28 2013 at 11:44
After doing a Google search on this topic--I decided that not enough is being said about this (or to my satisfaction). Now, it's hard enough for them to understand that two bands of the same name are not the same band. Thus none of these mix-robots stop themselves from including the Urban-music IQ in my prog mixes.

But it frustrates me that I cannot find a mix that will include The Dan and exclude all the other "similar sounding" wreckage from the seventies. I can skip or dislike (to my heart's content) the IQ songs, but the Dan problem is that I'd use up my skips in about 5 seconds on a "Dan Channel". Well, I did get a Fagen song once.

I'm pretty sure they don't understand how the Dan are gold, even at their poppiest and "similar sounding" music just doesn't have the depth, edge, or sub-Scholzian (re: Tom Scholz of Boston--who actually approached a historical Phillip de Medici level) manic perfectionism. 

(Btw, Pandora is mainly a synechdote for other services like IHeartRadio and the like.)

Just throwing the line out there.
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 11:53
What does it compare them to exactly? And I agree, they definitely aren't muzak. Very slick sometimes, but not muzak. 

Edited by irrelevant - March 28 2013 at 11:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 11:54
And this is in the Prog Music Lounge because?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 12:02
Originally posted by Snow Dog

And this is in the Prog Music Lounge because?

"General progressive music discussions" and I mentioned the problem with IQ in my prog music mixes. 

Sorry, was this a black tie lounge? 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 12:18
IQ is not urban music is it?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 14:12
I'm a fan of the Dan.....obviously I based my screen  name on one of their songs.
One of the very best pop/jazz/rock bands ever....with very biting and sarcastic lyrics at times...and imo progressive at times.
The fact that Pandora considers them muzak shows just how lame and uninformed Pandora is....imho of course.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 14:38
Originally posted by Snow Dog

IQ is not urban music is it?

This one is. And sometimes, (on Rhapsody, even paid), you get this one.

Both of them are rare, and it's hard to find either of them in an internet search, but I never hear anything from Subterranea or Dark Matter--nothing off of THE IQ I most see in searches. So even though they promote obscure bands, I've never seen a service that doesn't come up donuts on Glass Hammer or Ad Infinitum. 

I already have no hope that they understand the difference between post-Duke Genesis and prog Genesis, and that if I ask for Steve Hackett they're going to throw Sussudio and Invisible Touch in there, although I'm okay with most of Collins off of Face Value, and some of his second. But that's what skipping and dislikes are for. 

To me the most glaring is when I specify even "King of the World" and select the Countdown to Ecstasy album, I might get Peg or Hey 19 and then 70s pop from then on. Once in a while Boz Scaggs or maybe Fagen, 

I guess I was also wondering about some bands where the difference is too subtle--but for some reason extremely noticeable on a level of personal taste. It's like I know that some people don't think that Steely Dan even belongs in PA. But for my "credentials", Knots is one of my favorite pieces from Gentle Giant, and I appreciate some of Fripp's more abstract offerings. 

It's like deciding that I like Kandinsky, but Miro looks like an amoeba's interior decoration.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 14:54
Originally posted by axeman

Originally posted by Snow Dog

IQ is not urban music is it?

This one is. And sometimes, (on Rhapsody, even paid), you get this one.

Both of them are rare, and it's hard to find either of them in an internet search, but I never hear anything from Subterranea or Dark Matter--nothing off of THE IQ I most see in searches. So even though they promote obscure bands, I've never seen a service that doesn't come up donuts on Glass Hammer or Ad Infinitum. 

I already have no hope that they understand the difference between post-Duke Genesis and prog Genesis, and that if I ask for Steve Hackett they're going to throw Sussudio and Invisible Touch in there, although I'm okay with most of Collins off of Face Value, and some of his second. But that's what skipping and dislikes are for. 

To me the most glaring is when I specify even "King of the World" and select the Countdown to Ecstasy album, I might get Peg or Hey 19 and then 70s pop from then on. Once in a while Boz Scaggs or maybe Fagen, 

I guess I was also wondering about some bands where the difference is too subtle--but for some reason extremely noticeable on a level of personal taste. It's like I know that some people don't think that Steely Dan even belongs in PA. But for my "credentials", Knots is one of my favorite pieces from Gentle Giant, and I appreciate some of Fripp's more abstract offerings. 

It's like deciding that I like Kandinsky, but Miro looks like an amoeba's interior decoration.

 
I assume then you are a Steely Dan fan...?
Your favorite track and/or lp..?
 
Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stool Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 14:55
Originally posted by Snow Dog

IQ is not urban music is it?
 
is it rural music? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 15:08
Originally posted by dr wu23

I'm a fan of the Dan.....obviously I based my screen  name on one of their songs.
One of the very best pop/jazz/rock bands ever....with very biting and sarcastic lyrics at times...and imo progressive at times.
The fact that Pandora considers them muzak shows just how lame and uninformed Pandora is....imho of course.
Well Pandora--or IHeartRadio--never comes out and says they're Muzak, but it treats them like if you want SD, you probably want to hear Fleetwood Mac--and of course if they did deeper cuts off of their stuff, then I could tolerate the variety for a song. But when it's ballad-era REO Speedwagon, followed by Little River Band, followed by Player, followed by some forgettable top-40 artist in the 70s.

It's like when they play Bowie during a classic prog (say Gentle Giant) mix--I haven't found that disturbing, because it's followed by VDGG, Camel or Yes. 
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 15:23
I think Pandora works by collating everyone's preferences.  So if a lot of people who like Steely Dan also like (to pick a name at random) Leo Sayer, then when you come in and say you want Steely Dan, it's going to throw in some Leo Sayer too.  It has little to do with any pre-branded genre tag, it's just using actual customer data that's been collected over time.  The more people like you go in and say "no" to Leo Sayer, the less likely it will recommend Sayer to some other unsuspecting Danhead.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Larree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 15:28
Well, Steely Dan does have a kind of a cool muzical quality to their muzik.

Love the dan.  Was lucky to see them on their first three album tours in L.A.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 15:31
Originally posted by dr wu23

 
I assume then you are a Steely Dan fan...?
Your favorite track and/or lp..?
 
Cool
If I'm not, I don't know what I sprang over 50 bucks to get Citizen Dan for. :D

I waver on the Dan. My absolute favorite wavers between your namesake and Here at the Western World. Then again, there are sometimes when I feel that Royal Scam is the best song they ever recorded or Green Earring is the most infectious. Sometimes I like latter-day Dan more than some of their classics. I have actually spent periods listening to Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go more than Countdown through Aja. Although I like some stuff of Gaucho--and amazing myself, the disco-oriented Glamour Profession--Gaucho is as uneven as Pretzel Logic to me. 

I have the complete 1-per-decade collection of Fagen--before Sunken Condos which slipped out without my notice. And had Becker's 2 albums on MP3 until my backup disk bricked.

I think overall, the best piece of music ever put out by them was Dr. Wu, which really only ever gets put out of #1 by temporary appreciation of another Dan piece. 

One of my few reviews--with words--on PA is on Royal Scam
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 16:34
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I think Pandora works by collating everyone's preferences.  So if a lot of people who like Steely Dan also like (to pick a name at random) Leo Sayer, then when you come in and say you want Steely Dan, it's going to throw in some Leo Sayer too.  It has little to do with any pre-branded genre tag, it's just using actual customer data that's been collected over time.  The more people like you go in and say "no" to Leo Sayer, the less likely it will recommend Sayer to some other unsuspecting Danhead.
That makes sense. It doesn't make me any happier about what some other people that don't mind the Dan at its poppiest listen to besides--not that that's anything for me to comment on. 

If I listen to my rips and downloads I get just the mix I want. Some Porcupine Tree mixed with SD mixed with Big Big Train, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Yes, King Crimson (its many incarnations), Carptree, Mars Volta... But I like the unexpected, say like White Willow in my BBT station, or the occasional inclusion of Yezda Urfa when listening to Echolyn-based.

Just tradeoffs, I know.
-John
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 16:42
One thing is sure, they are not prog. Jazz-pop yes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 16:53
Originally posted by axeman

Originally posted by dr wu23

I'm a fan of the Dan.....obviously I based my screen  name on one of their songs.
One of the very best pop/jazz/rock bands ever....with very biting and sarcastic lyrics at times...and imo progressive at times.
The fact that Pandora considers them muzak shows just how lame and uninformed Pandora is....imho of course.
Well Pandora--or IHeartRadio--never comes out and says they're Muzak, but it treats them like if you want SD, you probably want to hear Fleetwood Mac--and of course if they did deeper cuts off of their stuff, then I could tolerate the variety for a song. But when it's ballad-era REO Speedwagon, followed by Little River Band, followed by Player, followed by some forgettable top-40 artist in the 70s.

It's like when they play Bowie during a classic prog (say Gentle Giant) mix--I haven't found that disturbing, because it's followed by VDGG, Camel or Yes. 
 
Which is why I rarely listen to Pandora or similar stations except at my son in law's house because he has very little prog and puts it on for me...the choices they come up with are really lame at times.
I have never considered Bowie prog  and imo he's no more prog than the Dan.
btw I have never seen any VDGG on Pandora...Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 16:55
Originally posted by axeman

Originally posted by dr wu23

 
I assume then you are a Steely Dan fan...?
Your favorite track and/or lp..?
 
Cool
If I'm not, I don't know what I sprang over 50 bucks to get Citizen Dan for. :D

I waver on the Dan. My absolute favorite wavers between your namesake and Here at the Western World. Then again, there are sometimes when I feel that Royal Scam is the best song they ever recorded or Green Earring is the most infectious. Sometimes I like latter-day Dan more than some of their classics. I have actually spent periods listening to Two Against Nature and Everything Must Go more than Countdown through Aja. Although I like some stuff of Gaucho--and amazing myself, the disco-oriented Glamour Profession--Gaucho is as uneven as Pretzel Logic to me. 

I have the complete 1-per-decade collection of Fagen--before Sunken Condos which slipped out without my notice. And had Becker's 2 albums on MP3 until my backup disk bricked.

I think overall, the best piece of music ever put out by them was Dr. Wu, which really only ever gets put out of #1 by temporary appreciation of another Dan piece. 

One of my few reviews--with words--on PA is on Royal Scam
 
I think the Dan have a number of really good lp's but I would go with Katy Lied....of course....though Countdown and Aja are a close second.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 16:56
Originally posted by dr wu23

I have never considered Bowie prog  and imo he's no more prog than the Dan.


He is not prog per se, but he has a lot of proggy tracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 17:01
Originally posted by lucas

Originally posted by dr wu23

I have never considered Bowie prog  and imo he's no more prog than the Dan.


He is not prog per se, but he has a lot of proggy tracks.
 
Yes.. ..but so do a hundred other bands who aren't in the PA  list of bands.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote axeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2013 at 17:22
Originally posted by dr wu23

I have never considered Bowie prog  and imo he's no more prog than the Dan.
Neither have I. The point was that Bowie on a prog-oriented channel is not as disruptive as the top-40 flotsam on a channel named for "Steely Dan". Again, I'm not really contesting which bands they resemble, I just find it notable (and annoying) the subjective difference they have for me. 
Originally posted by dr wu23

btw I have never seen any VDGG on Pandora...Confused
As I mentioned in my initial post, Pandora was a concrete name for all the mix services like it: IHeartRadio, Rhapsody, Last.fm,...
-John
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