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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
Posted: April 04 2013 at 14:33
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Tormato is much better than Love Beach. But disagree with Richard(as laways it seems) Palmer continued to be a top drummer.
By 'top drummer' I mean the very highest echelons. Palmer won loads of drumming awards in the seventies. In the eighties he turned himself into a proficient but ordinary AOR drummer imo.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26108
Posted: April 04 2013 at 14:36
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Tormato is much better than Love Beach. But disagree with Richard(as laways it seems) Palmer continued to be a top drummer.
By 'top drummer' I mean the very highest echelons. Palmer won loads of drumming awards in the seventies. In the eighties he turned himself into a proficient but ordinary AOR drummer imo.
Not ordinary imo
that was as fast a response as a Carl Palmer drum roll (circa 1973)
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4591
Posted: April 04 2013 at 15:03
richardh wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
God there are so many howlers on Taste of My Love, I’ve often thought it must be a mickey take:
“I want to hold you and enfold you beyond reason I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight”
“Call up room service, order peaches and cream I like my desert first - if you know what I mean. Yeah, taste it, taste it, taste it”
And the thought of chubby Greg Lake singing those lyrics with his big Cheshire Cat grin makes it even funnier than Spinal Tap’s Big Bottom to these ears.
Great One
I used to have a .sig that read:
"Every day a little sadder, a little madder, someone get me a ladder" - and who says Greg Lake writes awful lyrics???
Its shows a sense of humour at least that they embarked on the 'Someone Get Me A Ladder' tour following Brain Salad Surgery's release.
Lake has written some excellent lyrics. Trilogy (the album and track) from that perspective stands up well. BSS was more 'out there' and Still You Turn Me One is fine if taken in the context of the whole album
I've never heard that before...did they actually refer to it as the "Someone get me a ladder tour"? I could see Keith or Carl saying that (they're both very funny guys) but Greg just seems a bit too serious to go along with it. Although, there is a funny story about the original King Crimson. When Fripp (who had the popular Mitch Mitchell, Eric Clapton, late 60's white guy afro) told the other members of Crimso he was going to sit on a stool to play, Greg Lake said something like, "you can't do that, you'll look like a giant mushroom".
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
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Points: 1035
Posted: April 04 2013 at 15:12
Snow Dog wrote:
Tormato is much better than Love Beach. But disagree with Richard(as laways it seems) Palmer continued to be a top drummer.
I love ELP and Yes but am much more likely to listen to Love Beach than Tormato. Aside from its inherent comedy value Love Beach is also more dynamic and energetic. It's hard to believe Tormato was released just a year after the brilliant Going for the One. The drumming sounds like damp cardboard boxes, Wakeman was experimenting with a range of ghastly keyboard sounds and Howe had lost his guitar mojo. The only tracks that work for me are the ballady ones Onward and Madrigal
Love Beach was also the last album where Palmer's drumming had a "wow" factor, and his work with Asia definitely lacks his earlier dynamism. I think he continued to be a very good drummer but the true magic was gone. Anyway, here's a reminder of what made CP (and ELP) so awesome.
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
Joined: March 29 2013
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 15:39
Cactus Choir wrote:
Love Beach was also the last album where Palmer's drumming had a "wow" factor, and his work with Asia definitely lacks his earlier dynamism. I think he continued to be a very good drummer but the true magic was gone. Anyway, here's a reminder of what made CP (and ELP) so awesome.
Great youtube clip with ELP at the height of their magic. This is what frustrated me so much about Asia. My fave bassist (Wetton) with my 2nd fave drummer (CP), Steve Howe, and Geoff Downes and they threw all that prog mojo away to do radio friendly rubbish like "Heat of the Moment". Oh well, I guess even prog superstars gotta eat!
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Posted: April 04 2013 at 15:39
The.Crimson.King wrote:
richardh wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
God there are so many howlers on Taste of My Love, I’ve often thought it must be a mickey take:
“I want to hold you and enfold you beyond reason I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight”
“Call up room service, order peaches and cream I like my desert first - if you know what I mean. Yeah, taste it, taste it, taste it”
And the thought of chubby Greg Lake singing those lyrics with his big Cheshire Cat grin makes it even funnier than Spinal Tap’s Big Bottom to these ears.
Great One
I used to have a .sig that read:
"Every day a little sadder, a little madder, someone get me a ladder" - and who says Greg Lake writes awful lyrics???
Its shows a sense of humour at least that they embarked on the 'Someone Get Me A Ladder' tour following Brain Salad Surgery's release.
Lake has written some excellent lyrics. Trilogy (the album and track) from that perspective stands up well. BSS was more 'out there' and Still You Turn Me One is fine if taken in the context of the whole album
I've never heard that before...did they actually refer to it as the "Someone get me a ladder tour"? I could see Keith or Carl saying that (they're both very funny guys) but Greg just seems a bit too serious to go along with it. Although, there is a funny story about the original King Crimson. When Fripp (who had the popular Mitch Mitchell, Eric Clapton, late 60's white guy afro) told the other members of Crimso he was going to sit on a stool to play, Greg Lake said something like, "you can't do that, you'll look like a giant mushroom".
There was a "Get Me A ladder Tour" which was an European tour before the release of BSS and then a "Brain Salad Surgery Tour" from which the live album was taken.
Joined: July 26 2008
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Points: 1035
Posted: April 04 2013 at 17:02
The.Crimson.King wrote:
When Fripp (who had the popular Mitch Mitchell, Eric Clapton, late 60's white guy afro) told the other members of Crimso he was going to sit on a stool to play, Greg Lake said something like, "you can't do that, you'll look like a giant mushroom".
I''ve heard a recording of Fripp telling that story. It has to be done with the Dorset accents for maximum comic effect!
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
Joined: March 29 2013
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 17:12
Cactus Choir wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
When Fripp (who had the popular Mitch Mitchell, Eric Clapton, late 60's white guy afro) told the other members of Crimso he was going to sit on a stool to play, Greg Lake said something like, "you can't do that, you'll look like a giant mushroom".
I''ve heard a recording of Fripp telling that story. It has to be done with the Dorset accents for maximum comic effect!
Ya, I think I read it one of his online journal postings...I would've loved to have been there to see RF's reaction
Joined: February 09 2010
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Posted: April 04 2013 at 17:46
Cactus Choir wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Tormato is much better than Love Beach. But disagree with Richard(as laways it seems) Palmer continued to be a top drummer.
I love ELP and Yes but am much more likely to listen to Love Beach than Tormato. Aside from its inherent comedy value Love Beach is also more dynamic and energetic. It's hard to believe Tormato was released just a year after the brilliant Going for the One. The drumming sounds like damp cardboard boxes, Wakeman was experimenting with a range of ghastly keyboard sounds and Howe had lost his guitar mojo. The only tracks that work for me are the ballady ones Onward and Madrigal
Love Beach was also the last album where Palmer's drumming had a "wow" factor, and his work with Asia definitely lacks his earlier dynamism. I think he continued to be a very good drummer but the true magic was gone. Anyway, here's a reminder of what made CP (and ELP) so awesome.
Carl Palmer is still a good drummer if you listen to any of Asia's live albums. In the studio is something else where the drummer has maybe one fourth or one fifth of the say as to what goes down on the album. Also, my feelings about Love Beach is that it is less than half of a decent album. Tormato however is maybe a bit flawed and a little under produced, but I still prefer it to GFTO which is a bit over produced. Any of the live versions of Awaken are vastly superior to the studio version. I don't agree that Howe has lost his guitar mojo on Tormato as I really like the guitar parts. I think the faults more lie with Wakeman's keyboard parts and I question whether Wakeman was really interested in the project (having left the band again when the album was completed). I think its more the band that has lost its mojo for producing top notch studio albums after Relayer.
Joined: February 18 2004
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 02:01
Snow Dog wrote:
He still had and has the wow factor in Asia and Three.
most of that 3 album is dreadfull AOR/POP excepting Desda La Vida , a good track but nowhere near as good as classic ELP and the playing sounding laboured to my ears (but I like the lyrics and atmosphere of it)
Asia's debut album did have some proggy stuff before they decided to go full AOR on Alpha although Wildest Dreams is the only track with the supposed 'wow factor' drumming wise that I can hear. Sole Survivor is also a good track and Palmer is very solid but thats all. What else?
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26108
Posted: April 05 2013 at 02:06
Cactus Choir wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Tormato is much better than Love Beach. But disagree with Richard(as laways it seems) Palmer continued to be a top drummer.
I love ELP and Yes but am much more likely to listen to Love Beach than Tormato. Aside from its inherent comedy value Love Beach is also more dynamic and energetic. It's hard to believe Tormato was released just a year after the brilliant Going for the One. The drumming sounds like damp cardboard boxes, Wakeman was experimenting with a range of ghastly keyboard sounds and Howe had lost his guitar mojo. The only tracks that work for me are the ballady ones Onward and Madrigal
Love Beach was also the last album where Palmer's drumming had a "wow" factor, and his work with Asia definitely lacks his earlier dynamism. I think he continued to be a very good drummer but the true magic was gone. Anyway, here's a reminder of what made CP (and ELP) so awesome.
For me White hit his peak on Tormato and Drama.
anyway that clip of Palmer is amazing. The version of Pictures that ELP were playing around that time (1973-4) was amazing especially the Baba Yaga section as per that clip. Palmer loses his drumsticks at one point but hardly breaks stride. I remember him being interviewed a few years later and saying that he used to come out of ELP gigs totally knackered. That's exactly how it should be
Joined: July 26 2008
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 02:37
richardh wrote:
For me White hit his peak on Tormato and Drama.
anyway that clip of Palmer is amazing. The version of Pictures that ELP were playing around that time (1973-4) was amazing especially the Baba Yaga section as per that clip. Palmer loses his drumsticks at one point but hardly breaks stride. I remember him being interviewed a few years later and saying that he used to come out of ELP gigs totally knackered. That's exactly how it should be
Funny how people can hear things so differently! I've never liked the drum sound on Tormato, though Drama sounds better and is a much better album IMO. I think White was at his peak on Yessongs and Relayer.
There was an ELP interview from 74 where the critic Lester Bangs called Palmer's drumming style "automaton frenzy". A good description (although Bangs was probably being a bit facetious).
Edited by Cactus Choir - April 05 2013 at 02:38
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Posted: April 05 2013 at 22:26
I think that most people who really hate this album won't even bother with this poll........... we won't really get a genuine percentage from greater perspective.........
..............which also reminds me of the Richard Wright 80's project 'ZEE' - if one focusses on the finer points, it's not a bad album at all. The weaker elements can not be ignored, but it's generally a sign of the times. They produce what's required to survive, albeit, with mixed results.
Joined: July 01 2004
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 03:17
My votes goes to Love Beach because ITHS only has one good track, "The Hand Of Truth" (plus, you can rearrange 'ITHS' into another word...!!!).
richardh wrote:
most of that 3 album is dreadfull AOR/POP excepting Desda La Vida , a good track but nowhere near as good as classic ELP and the playing sounding laboured to my ears (but I like the lyrics and atmosphere of it)
Not only is it dreadful AOR "pap" ("Yeahhh, I'm talkin' bout you / I'm talkin' bout me"), Keith's sounds were the dullest ever, the epitome of drab '80s digital electronics (as referenced in that other thread).
(...much to the same effect when Geddy used the most dreadful "popcorny" digital patch in lieu of the dense synth strings on "Distant Early Warning" when they played it during the Roll The Bones tour...)
Love Beach was also the last album where Palmer's drumming had a "wow" factor, and his work with Asia definitely lacks his earlier dynamism. I think he continued to be a very good drummer but the true magic was gone. Anyway, here's a reminder of what made CP (and ELP) so awesome.
Great youtube clip with ELP at the height of their magic. This is what frustrated me so much about Asia. My fave bassist (Wetton) with my 2nd fave drummer (CP), Steve Howe, and Geoff Downes and they threw all that prog mojo away to do radio friendly rubbish like "Heat of the Moment". Oh well, I guess even prog superstars gotta eat!
Oh come on now, as much as I endorse your sentiments about such a squandering of talent, it was damn catchy admit it?
Joined: September 03 2005
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 03:46
Snow Dog wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
richardh wrote:
[QUOTE=The.Crimson.King][QUOTE=Cactus Choir] God there are so many howlers on Taste of My Love, I’ve often thought it must be a mickey take:
“I want to hold you and enfold you beyond reason I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight”
“Call up room service, order peaches and cream I like my desert first - if you know what I mean. Yeah, taste it, taste it, taste it”
And the thought of chubby Greg Lake singing those lyrics with his big Cheshire Cat grin makes it even funnier than Spinal Tap’s Big Bottom to these ears.
Great One
I used to have a .sig that read:
"Every day a little sadder, a little madder, someone get me a ladder" - and who says Greg Lake writes awful lyrics???
Its shows a sense of humour at least that they embarked on the 'Someone Get Me A Ladder' tour following Brain Salad Surgery's release.
You know, that line "every day a little sadder........" I always perceived the 'ladder' part was Greg calling for somebody to bring him something to climb up on to get out of the s.h.i.t. - maybe I'm wrong........
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: April 06 2013 at 04:55
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
He still had and has the wow factor in Asia and Three.
most of that 3 album is dreadfull AOR/POP excepting Desda La Vida , a good track but nowhere near as good as classic ELP and the playing sounding laboured to my ears (but I like the lyrics and atmosphere of it)
Asia's debut album did have some proggy stuff before they decided to go full AOR on Alpha although Wildest Dreams is the only track with the supposed 'wow factor' drumming wise that I can hear. Sole Survivor is also a good track and Palmer is very solid but thats all. What else?
We will never agree Richard, ever. I happen to regard Three's album very highly.
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
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Points: 15916
Posted: April 06 2013 at 05:34
Snow Dog wrote:
richardh wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
He still had and has the wow factor in Asia and Three.
most of that 3 album is dreadfull AOR/POP excepting Desda La Vida , a good track but nowhere near as good as classic ELP and the playing sounding laboured to my ears (but I like the lyrics and atmosphere of it)
Asia's debut album did have some proggy stuff before they decided to go full AOR on Alpha although Wildest Dreams is the only track with the supposed 'wow factor' drumming wise that I can hear. Sole Survivor is also a good track and Palmer is very solid but thats all. What else?
We will never agree Richard, ever. I happen to regard Three's album very highly.
Sorry to say, but who the heck is Robert Berry when he's at home ??.................. Where did they find him ?? I do not like his prescence on that album..........................
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Love Beach vs In The Hot Seat
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richardh wrote:
)
I''ve heard a recording of Fripp telling that story. It has to be done with the Dorset accents for maximum comic effect!
- maybe I'm wrong........