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Topic ClosedFree Hand - a 1* album

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Poll Question: Is Free Hand a 1* album?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [19.15%]
76 [80.85%]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 12:16
I saw that I lowered the average rating by .02 of a star! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 12:19
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

... My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots. 
First time when I read PoS, I thought of Pain of Salvation. But now that I'm rethinking about it, ...  Ermm

Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 07 2013 at 12:19
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 13:46
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots. 


You sound like a real charming human being. I mean, seriously, you seem to hate Knots so much I wonder if you got raped by it?! Haha what's wrong with you?


Edited by MustardSea - April 07 2013 at 13:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 14:09
Take it outside (via PMs, that is).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 14:11
Originally posted by dennismoore dennismoore wrote:


In the coming decades when genetic science will allow mankind to eradicate inferior traits from the genome...
We now have the subjects to eliminate the "stupidity" gene.

This may seem harsh, but this is more than a simple case of opinion, it is reviewer incompetence. Example, I am not very keen on metal or singers that scream & growl, so I would certainly trash them in a review as that stuff truly causes me discomfort.  So the answer is:  Don't review the stuff that you really don't like.  It is pointless.  If you guys still don't get my point, think of it this way:

Gentle Giant - Free Hand
YES - CTTE
ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
Pink Floyd - DSOTM

Yes, you can find people that speak negatively about these recordings(in fact here at PA) yet that would be a complete waste of time since the above recordings are genre leading masterpieces of prog.

So I do think the reviewer was at best, ill-advised to lampoon Free Hand. His time telling us about music would have been better served writing about music that he was more qualified to speak of.

Ah the old mine is not an opinion, it is stating a fact debating stance. That always convinces the doubters!Confused

Of course your assertion that those albums are "Masterpieces of prog" is an opinion. It is as valid as, but no more than, anyone else's. You don't win a debate by deriding those who would differ from your opinion.


Edited by Easy Livin - April 07 2013 at 14:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2013 at 15:52
Originally posted by MustardSea MustardSea wrote:

Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots. 


You sound like a real charming human being. I mean, seriously, you seem to hate Knots so much I wonder if you got raped by it?! Haha what's wrong with you?

Out of topics....I'm checking your music on bandcamp and I'm liking what I hear. (Water Maiden to start)
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 01:16

[/QUOTE]

 

The only suggestion that I want to give to Tubes is this: when you write a review think also to the artists. GG will surely don't care of your judgement, but a young band which has self-funded an album and is struggling in finding time and money to continue making music, well, be careful with your ratings in the bad and in the good as you can influence the things more than how much you can expect. 



[/QUOTE]

You make a very valid point here. I personally don't like the music of Haken, Riverside and Magenta and would struggle to award more than 2 or 3 stars for any of their albums. But thankfully I'm outnumbered by others who do like their music. The one thing I would never do is question the technical competence of any of these bands, nor do I want to be responsible for stopping a single person buying their music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 03:26
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by MustardSea MustardSea wrote:

Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots. 


You sound like a real charming human being. I mean, seriously, you seem to hate Knots so much I wonder if you got raped by it?! Haha what's wrong with you?

Out of topics....I'm checking your music on bandcamp and I'm liking what I hear. (Water Maiden to start)


Thanks a lot Mr. Octopus! Smile

aaand back to topic: all of the Tube-bashing aside -  What's the point in bashing a band? It's the same with Dream Theater. Every time they release a new album the forum explodes into a war between the lovers and the haters of said band. You could do something productive instead of that... write a book, write some music, be creative...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 11:14
@MustardSea Well, I hope that once I have re-posted the review for Octopus, it will have proven to be a helpful endeavor. If it discourages someone from buying the most expensive Gentle Giant studio album, which also happens to be their second shortest-running, then it will have accomplished at least part of its purpose.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 11:26
Expensive as in it was the most expensive album for Gentle Giant to make or as in the most expensive album of theirs to purchase? If the latter, I find it hard to believe, since, a few years ago, I ordered and bought a new copy of the CD at my local record store for less than 10 bucks.


He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 12:59
Originally posted by kit-kat kit-kat wrote:

if I posted a review on either, would you tell me I have "stupidity gene" or whatever?

 
Hi Kit-Kat,Smile
 
No, not at all, my opening bit of levity was an attempt to draw out my friend Horizons, this kinda stuff gets
him going, every time.   Wink
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 17:32
@KingCrInuYasha On Itunes, I bought this 34-minute, "masterpiece" for 12 bucks. I can get Acquiring the Taste for 7. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 22:07
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@KingCrInuYasha On Itunes, I bought this 34-minute, "masterpiece" for 12 bucks. I can get Acquiring the Taste for 7. 
If you hate GG so much why on earth did you buy it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2013 at 22:31
@infocat Octopus and The Missing Piece were the first GG albums I ever purchased. Bought 'em at face value. Boy, did I ever learn a lesson there...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 09:53
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@dennismoore You realize that you're talking about eugenics, there, man? You know like man playing with himself, playing God. LOL Either way, that's a pretty offensive thing to say, ie. that I have a 'stupidity gene' (did you come up with that all by yourself? You are SO clever). I'm reporting you, period. 
 
 
My dear lad:
 
You must learn to govern your passions, they will be your undoing.Wink
 
I was just having a spot of fun.Big smile   But you must realise that if you choose a well regarded classic and trash it in a review you are going to get a lot of attention. 
 
For me, I can't stand Gentle Giant's 1st 3 CDs, then their brilliant keyboard player, Kerry Minnear, took over arrranging duties and made magic out of all that chaos all the other lads were causing and we got Octopus, Power & Glory
& Freehand.   3 masterpieces. Mind you it is not soft/harmonic/symphonic prog... Kerry Minear is one of the true unsung prog keyboardist AND writer/arranger masters IMHO.
 
Ok, Free Hand & Octopus aren't your cup of tea.  What prog CDs do you like and why?
"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 10:43
He is entitled to his opinion.  And so I am to the opinion that it is a pretty poor review with very little analysis of the music and more of a laundry list of reasons to dislike the album.   Very little justification offered also for exactly how Gentle Giant were a band that were never bent on defying stagnant music conventions.  Yeah, I suppose blues rock is full of atonal, dissonant guitar solos, so stagnant (the track I speak of, by the way, is The House, The Street, The Room).     That, and several other bold statements that come and go without reasoning offered to support them.   If he can actually make the effort to do that, I  would be very much interested to read because it is rare for the consensus on classics to be challenged.    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 10:52
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

... it is rare for the consensus on classics to be challenged.
A very good point you've made right there. I think there are two questions you should ask yourself: what is the general consensus and why. Something to do before you write your own review - read other people's reviews on the album.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 09 2013 at 10:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 11:02
Originally posted by MustardSea MustardSea wrote:

Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@MustardSea I'm not complaining about it having a very 70's sound, but I do mention because some people might not like that. Oh, and guess what Close to the Edge is structured like a pop song. Before hearing that masterpiece, had you ever known such a long song that was truly worth every second of its duration? You better not answer that. Close to the Edge is based on a piece of religious fiction, at least - not some f**king Boy Scout rope-tying manual, or psychological text, however it works out to relate to R. D. Laing. My point is the Close to the Edge is infinitely more beautiful than that gut-wrenchingly disgusting POS Knots. 


You sound like a real charming human being. I mean, seriously, you seem to hate Knots so much I wonder if you got raped by it?! Haha what's wrong with you?

He sounds like a religious freak living in his own private IowaWink hard to be anything in Iowa---except a big fish in a small pondLOL and we at prog archives have given him all the attention he craves.LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 11:03
@Davenkirq

While both those points are well taken, I don't think the presence of a consensus necessarily acts as a barrier against a low rating.   What is a consensus on the PA database anyway other than the averaged out score of a no. of ratings?  Free Hand has 776 ratings and its average score of 4.25 is pretty impressive but SEBTP fetches 4.62 over 2376 ratings, so that's a much bigger sample.  A consensus opinion is also not set in stone; it can change as tastes change.   I find that I am not the only one on PA who dislikes Hotel California but not only was it was a big hit in its day, it was hailed as an all time guitar classic.  Maybe it will continue to be for some more time, but I smell hints that the tide is turning and eulogies in praise of this song are not quite as effusive as they used to be when I was growing up. 

In a nutshell, there is room for a contrary opinion on any album, even a highly rated one from the 70s like Free Hand.   I look forward to such reviews - especially when they are talked up so much like this one - to learn anything that I missed in my experience of the album (not matter how much I like it, as in this case).  In this review, I found an opinion...and that's all.  No reasons to make a case that maybe there was some aspect of the album that I had completely missed out over the last few years that I've had and listened to this album. 


Edited by rogerthat - April 09 2013 at 11:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 13:04
Originally posted by Tubes Tubes wrote:

@infocat Octopus and The Missing Piece were the first GG albums I ever purchased. Bought 'em at face value. Boy, did I ever learn a lesson there...
Apparently not, since you then went on to buy Free Hand and it seems you have been looking at Acquiring The Taste. After three albums the sensible conclusion would be to accept that Gentle Giant are not for you and to move on.
 
In case you missed it in the other thread - your latest Octopus review needs editing, please learn how to do that before continuing (just as it would be advantageous if you could learn how to quote - this is not twitter or youtoob, it's a forum with full quoting capability and practically unlimited post length).
 
Please be informed that we do not encourage or condone deliberate rating manipulation - the rating you give an album must be your fair and honest assessment of the album, not a deliberate low score designed solely to lower the average.


Edited by Dean - April 09 2013 at 18:38
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Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
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