Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: GTR - A 1* album
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

GTR - A 1* album

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Poll Question: Is GTR a 1 star album?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [25.00%]
17 [70.83%]
1 [4.17%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy/UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GTR - A 1* album
    Posted: April 03 2013 at 02:48
The discussion about Free Hand has given me the idea of this poll.

This is the link to one of my oldest reviews. Surely not my best honestly.

Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 04:11
I would give it 4 stars. I love it.

I won't read your review. I know how I feel. Nothing will change that.  Plus I don't want to get annoyed with you. (And everyone else)


Edited by Snow Dog - April 03 2013 at 04:12
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy/UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:08
I'm obviously provoking. I know that at least you and Dean love this album, but as I have written in the post it's following all the polemics about Gentle Giant's Free Hand.

I don't mean to really  discuss that album. I have bought it when it was released and made a copy on a C90 tape before going on holidays. On the B side I put "The Final Cut".

Honestly I have listened to that tape quite a lot of times (both the sides). Even if I think that's a 1 star album I can still listen to it. Some people likes Marmite, you know... Smile 
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32925
Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:20
Originally posted by octopus-4

I'm obviously provoking. I know that at least you and Dean love this album, but as I have written in the post it's following all the polemics about Gentle Giant's Free Hand.

I don't mean to really  discuss that album. I have bought it when it was released and made a copy on a C90 tape before going on holidays. On the B side I put "The Final Cut".

Honestly I have listened to that tape quite a lot of times (both the sides). Even if I think that's a 1 star album I can still listen to it. Some people likes Marmite, you know... Smile 

I don't think Dean likes it. Never read anywhere he does anyway. Who knows? You seem to.Smile
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy/UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:34
We have discussed about it in another thread long time ago, unless I have discussed it with you and I'm so stoned to be confused Smile


Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Albion
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 32757
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 05:52
Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by octopus-4

I'm obviously provoking. I know that at least you and Dean love this album, but as I have written in the post it's following all the polemics about Gentle Giant's Free Hand.

I don't mean to really  discuss that album. I have bought it when it was released and made a copy on a C90 tape before going on holidays. On the B side I put "The Final Cut".

Honestly I have listened to that tape quite a lot of times (both the sides). Even if I think that's a 1 star album I can still listen to it. Some people likes Marmite, you know... Smile 

I don't think Dean likes it. Never read anywhere he does anyway. Who knows? You seem to.Smile
I enjoy it, I don't hate it, I certainly don' think it is a bad album and 'When The Heart Rules The Mind' is a cracking 80s pop song.
 
It's not a 1-star album by any stretch of the imagination, as an 80s pop-rock album it's a pretty solid 3-stars. It would be a 1-star Progressive Rock album maybe, just as it would be a 1-star hip-hop album or a 1-star ska-punk album or a 1-star bebop-swing-dixieland-free-diddle-um-pum-pooh jazz album, because it is none of those things nor was it ever trying to be.
 
Fortunately we stuck it in Prog Related so we don't have to judge it as a Progresive Rock album, we don't have to determine how Proggy it is or whether Steve's Hackett and Howe are noodling proggy-noodles in irrational meters and blowing our tiny minds with how mind-blowingly magnificent they are at noodling proggy-noodles on a 12-string lute and for that we don't have to mark-them-down for failing to blow our tiny little prog-addled noggins - we just have to judge whether it's a good, bad or indifferent 80s pop-rock album ... and for me it's neither amazingly great nor is it woefully bad - sure, if it wasn't the Twin Steves then I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place, but having listened to it regularly for the past 27 years i'm rather glad I did.
 
Of course if you don't like 80s pop-rock then by all means give it a 1-star rating¹ - but if you were expecting something else then that's not really the album's fault is it?
 
 
 
 
 
¹ Because giving 1-star ratings to things we don't like rather than to things that are actually bad seema to be the way we do things around here. Never fully understood that rationale myself, but there you go, what do I know?


Edited by Dean - April 03 2013 at 05:57


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
Back to Top
tamijo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3869
Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 07:19
I liked it when it came out, but i honestly wouldent play it today, it didnt age well.
And i dont care about stars. 
Back to Top
The Doctor View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8352
Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 07:38
Certainly not the greatest that Hackett and Howe have ever made separately, and in fact, a rather mediocre aor album. I like aor but this isn't that good at that either, with the exception of a few songs.  However, I would reserve 1 star for albums that belong in the trash heap and this isn't quite that bad.  I'd probably rate it 2 1/2 because there are a few good songs on it.   
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7892
Post Options Post Options   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 15:49
It's far better than anything Asia ever recorded.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy/UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 15:56
The fact that I had big expectations is surely a reason, but what I dislike most is Max Bacon vocals. It was the year of "The Final Countdown" and I hated Europe because they had a great guitarist so poorly used.

GTR sounded to my ears like an Europe clone. I have listened to it a lot during that summer. If you take it as pop is not too bad (vocals apart). 

I can't comment about Asia. Somebody actually told me to save my money and I have followed the suggestion. Basing on the few things that I have listened, probably you are right.

And in terms of 80s poppy prog, everybody knows that I absolutely love 90125. I've gone 600 Km by train to see it live.
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
Back to Top
lucas View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7892
Post Options Post Options   Quote lucas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 16:07
Originally posted by octopus-4

The fact that I had big expectations is surely a reason, but what I dislike most is Max Bacon vocals. It was the year of "The Final Countdown" and I hated Europe because they had a great guitarist so poorly used.

GTR sounded to my ears like an Europe clone. I have listened to it a lot during that summer. If you take it as pop is not too bad (vocals apart). 

I can't comment about Asia. Somebody actually told me to save my money and I have followed the suggestion. Basing on the few things that I have listened, probably you are right.

And in terms of 80s poppy prog, everybody knows that I absolutely love 90125. I've gone 600 Km by train to see it live.


Max Bacon is  a great vocalist, much more pleasant for the ears than the guy with his horrid vocals in Gentle Giant.

Being the clone of another band isn't a bad thing, as long as the musicians are competent and deliver something good.
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
Back to Top
octopus-4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl Team

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy/UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5849
Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 16:16
Originally posted by lucas

Originally posted by octopus-4

The fact that I had big expectations is surely a reason, but what I dislike most is Max Bacon vocals. It was the year of "The Final Countdown" and I hated Europe because they had a great guitarist so poorly used.

GTR sounded to my ears like an Europe clone. I have listened to it a lot during that summer. If you take it as pop is not too bad (vocals apart). 

I can't comment about Asia. Somebody actually told me to save my money and I have followed the suggestion. Basing on the few things that I have listened, probably you are right.

And in terms of 80s poppy prog, everybody knows that I absolutely love 90125. I've gone 600 Km by train to see it live.


Max Bacon is  a great vocalist, much more pleasant for the ears than the guy with his horrid vocals in Gentle Giant.

Being the clone of another band isn't a bad thing, as long as the musicians are competent and deliver something good.
I'm in favour of clones. I'm one of the few who has given a positive review to Unifaun, should I find another Camel clone other than Bellaphon I would surely buy it. I have written in another thread "if you wish to sound like your idols and succeed is a good thing". 

The problem is who you clone.

Max Bacon on that album sounds like the Europe's vocalist. I don't like him on this specific album. His voice is high pitched and powerful, maybe with YES he would sound better. 

I have to say that the live album which followed GTR  is better. Songs that I have totally disliked on the studio version are not so bad in the live. I have rated it with 2 stars and I was curious enough to spend some bucks on a used copy when I heard of its existence many years after.

In any case I'm liking this discussion. 
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
Back to Top
wilmon91 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 631
Post Options Post Options   Quote wilmon91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 20:56
It has qualities....it has memorable melodies. For example, I like the chorus of Jekyll and Mr Hyde which alternates 4 chords of vocals with 4 chords instrumental with a nice guitar melody. That sort of chorus with an instrumental melody is uncommon but Hackett has used that form in other songs.

In the eighties I had a melody stuck in my head that I liked .For a long time I thought it came from an album by King Cobra. It turned out it wasn't that album. Not until 2002 I discovered the origin of the melody, which was GTR. That was cool because by then I was a Hackett fan since 1997, but had not heard GTR since the eighties. The song was Here I Wait, the nice instrumental part in the middle of the song, with the guitar melody.

They could have had a boring guitar solo, but instead all instrumental parts are very melodic. But the album is a bit dated with the vocal style coupled with the big reverb/room ambiance, a bit messy arena-rock sound. It's worth 3/5 at least.


Edited by wilmon91 - April 03 2013 at 21:01
Back to Top
Horizons View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Post/Math Rock Team

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14304
Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 21:13
Has to be 1*
Back to Top
wilmon91 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 15 2009
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 631
Post Options Post Options   Quote wilmon91 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 03 2013 at 21:23
Originally posted by octopus-4

GTR sounded to my ears like an Europe clone.


I had to listen to some samples to refresh my memory, havent heard this in many years. It's not in any way near Europe in my opinion. It is prog. The songs are varied and unpredictable and richer in structure than some ordinary radio rock band. And they didn't express a narrow stereotypical rock attitude. There is more romantic stuff like Sketches in the sun, Toe the line, Imagining...

I listened to "Reach Out (Never Say No) " , a song I have forgotten completely. Some nice riffs, and very nice instrumental parts with synth soloing.
Back to Top
Larree View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 10 2013
Location: Hollywood, CA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
Post Options Post Options   Quote Larree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 00:38
Love Steve and Steve but GTR is a 1* album.
Back to Top
ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Riverside,CA
Online Status: Online
Posts: 2403
Post Options Post Options   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 02:16
Sonia, Kati where are you at Cry
“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

Back to Top
Moogtron III View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9409
Post Options Post Options   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 02:25
Originally posted by Dean

 
 'When The Heart Rules The Mind' is a cracking 80s pop song.
 

Quite right. Great song. 
There's some other good stuff on the album too. 
Well, a one star rating would be definitely undeserved IMHO.
Back to Top
Jim Garten View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14535
Post Options Post Options   Quote Jim Garten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 03:01
This was how I reviewed it back in March 2004, when I was but a forum newbie among a total population of less than 100 (yes, it was a 1 star review):

Originally posted by me in 2004

This is probably the most disappointing album I have ever bought - the idea of two of the greatest progressive rock guitarists getting together filled my imagination with the idea of soaring guitar solos, epic musicianship, and the best progressive rock album of the 1980's. The actual result was far less than the sum of its parts - basically, this is a watered down AOR album, with high pitched Journey-like vocals; if you like mid 1980's American AOR, then you may find this album worth a listen, otherwise I would avoid this - even the 2 solo pieces by Hackett/Howe are solo-by-numbers


Harsh, perhaps, but the basic idea still holds water for me - I was expecting a considerably different album... Maybe I should revisit the album at some point - maybe

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
Back to Top
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3303
Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 04 2013 at 05:07
2.5 stars for me, which matches with the average PA rating.
When The Heart Rules The Mind is perhaps my least favourite song, I have always seen it as the Heat Of The Moment from Asia debut.
The Hunter, Sketches In The Sun, Toe The Line, Hackett To Bits and Imagining are quite good. I don't remember much of the other songs, it's years I did not give it a spin. 

I don't fancy Max Bacon's voice too much but comparisons with Europe??? I only remember their two hits The Final Countdown and Carrie but as far as I can tell they had nothing to do with GTR Confused
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.