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Misinterpreting the term "prog"

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brainstormer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Misinterpreting the term "prog"
    Posted: April 17 2013 at 23:24
The point is how we pick what prog is right, and the word to us, has that sense of strength.  It's a token
of honor we chose to give certain progressive rock, that some may call prog, whether or not we call it
prog or not.

I think the point is that it is our right to say what is good prog or is not....in the sense of being emphatic, like,
that's real fudge, or, that's a real cup of coffee.   Melvin might say some band is prog, and I am glad he
likes progressive rock in general to call it prog, in that way, it honors me and prog at large.  But, is it
really prog to me?  Nah, probably not.

You guys need to study some serious graduate level linguistics before you can start an academic
sense of what you are saying in any serious language focused way.  There are all kinds of qualifiers
and criteria that categories and sets, about thirty different linguistic terms that have no parallel in 
words in other fields.  Then you can define what prog.  But I think this thought is an existential understanding
of why we defend the word, and defend our bands, that fit into the category, and defend others rights
to use the term any way they want.  It helps our cause in the end.  Because, we are after all, a subset
of a much, much larger group of rock music, much of which we probably don't like too much.

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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 04:30
Originally posted by brainstormer

The point is how we pick what prog is right, and the word to us, has that sense of strength.  It's a token
of honor we chose to give certain progressive rock, that some may call prog, whether or not we call it
prog or not.

I think the point is that it is our right to say what is good prog or is not....in the sense of being emphatic, like,
that's real fudge, or, that's a real cup of coffee.   Melvin might say some band is prog, and I am glad he
likes progressive rock in general to call it prog, in that way, it honors me and prog at large.  But, is it
really prog to me?  Nah, probably not.

You guys need to study some serious graduate level linguistics before you can start an academic
sense of what you are saying in any serious language focused way.  There are all kinds of qualifiers
and criteria that categories and sets, about thirty different linguistic terms that have no parallel in 
words in other fields.  Then you can define what prog.  But I think this thought is an existential understanding
of why we defend the word, and defend our bands, that fit into the category, and defend others rights
to use the term any way they want.  It helps our cause in the end.  Because, we are after all, a subset
of a much, much larger group of rock music, much of which we probably don't like too much.



Some valid points there certainly but if nothing else, these forums are testimony to the futility of a satisfactory definition of Prog. I really don't want an academic sense of the arts, least of all music thank you.Wink
I'm 50 years old (yes, that matters) and might best illustrate the dichotomy at the heart of such discussions this way:
I like Echolyn and Argent, but not equally.
I think Echolyn's music is better composed and that they are better musicians
I think Echolyn are a very adventurous, innovative and challenging rock band who are clearly influenced and inspired by Prog Rock bands
I think Argent are a Prog Rock band

Yes, all of the foregoing statements are unashamedly subjective, BUT there are a LOT of people on these forums who had their formative years circa 1970-79 that have a very similar take on what they regard as Prog. It goes without saying that the more good music we can celebrate on PA the better, but let's not lose sight of the fact that:

the further you get from the past, the more concrete and plausible it seems --but as you approach the present, it inevitably seems incredible (Salman Rushdie)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 14:05
I know it when I hear it. It may not match what you know when you hear it, but that doesn't matter.
Humans have this urge to organize things, some more than others. Some obsess over it and insist that others organize things the same way they do. I'm content to have my own organization.
I love a lot of music that I don't consider Prog.
I despise a lot of music that I do consider Prog.
I think Pere Ubu is Prog, and I love them, but I don't think any less of them because they aren't considered Prog here. Maybe I like them even more because they are so outrageous and difficult to categorize that they don't even fit in with Prog!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2013 at 09:10
I listen to the birds. Seriously. I don't even have an ipod. Hate the things. Saw a girl almost hit by a caryesterday with one of those things on.


                
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Post Options Post Options   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2013 at 10:00
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby

I listen to the birds. Seriously. I don't even have an ipod. Hate the things. Saw a girl almost hit by a caryesterday with one of those things on.


I'm constantly with headphones on. Should a car hit me I will finish playing Interstellar overdrive on bass with Syd Barrett and Rick Wright in the prog's paradise
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2013 at 15:31
Originally posted by brainstormer

...
You guys need to study some serious graduate level linguistics before you can start an academic
sense of what you are saying in any serious language focused way.  There are all kinds of qualifiers
and criteria that categories and sets, about thirty different linguistic terms that have no parallel in 
words in other fields.  Then you can define what prog.
...
 
I actually have come to think, that because everything is a database here or anywhere else, that this that you suggest will never be possible ... and the whole lot of this music, like so much music in the histroy of mankind that no one ever heard, gets wasted and trashed and gone ... replaced by another music!
 
Such is life! Another flower bloomed over there!
..
Originally posted by brainstormer

...  But I think this thought is an existential understanding of why we defend the word, and defend our bands, that fit into the category, and defend others rights to use the term any way they want.  It helps our cause in the end.  Because, we are after all, a subset of a much, much larger group of rock music, much of which we probably don't like too much.
 
For this to happen, as I've said many times, it has to get out of the "fan" thing ... and get into the poop thing a lot more ... and when the poop hits the fan, we then have the option of spreading it, or making it "art" ... if all we do is clean it up, or worse, leave it in Jean Genet style ... then I really think that we will be in for a hard time and lack of acceptance. Wel,, at least Sartre fought for Genet ... but I'm not sure that Mosh is enough, and too many folks are not interested ... but I would love to see PA take a serious interest in that ... but I doubt they can or will, or that any of them will have the time ... but I can tell you that Dean would definitly be in charge of the stuff about London and surrounding areas!

I would only be good at the quotidian studies ... much of which is something that a lot of people here have a horrible aversion to ... and ignore the lyrics of most of these things! But it only takes the fun, satire like things in Caravan, for folks to think that lyrics can be silly and about ... _______________ ! Somehow that is an issue ... and we would probably have to make a call on the value of the lyrics in the totality of the work, because a lot of worl out there tries to be important ... and sometimes the nature of it is so trivial as to make it singlular, individual and eccentric, and no history of the arts, is exclusively about that!
 
"Prog" is ok with me, and should be defined as a further extension of "progressive" music ... and hopefully, one day, this will be accepted and understood properly. But not all "prog" is anything more than just mere top ten material!


Edited by moshkito - April 20 2013 at 15:37
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 13:11
Originally posted by brainstormer

The point is how we pick what prog is right, and the word to us, has that sense of strength.  It's a token
of honor we chose to give certain progressive rock, that some may call prog, whether or not we call it
prog or not.
I think the point is that it is our right to say what is good prog or is not....in the sense of being emphatic, like,
that's real fudge, or, that's a real cup of coffee.   Melvin might say some band is prog, and I am glad he
likes progressive rock in general to call it prog, in that way, it honors me and prog at large.  But, is it
really prog to me?  Nah, probably not.
You guys need to study some serious graduate level linguistics before you can start an academic
sense of what you are saying in any serious language focused way.  There are all kinds of qualifiers
and criteria that categories and sets, about thirty different linguistic terms that have no parallel in 
words in other fields.  Then you can define what prog.  But I think this thought is an existential understanding
of why we defend the word, and defend our bands, that fit into the category, and defend others rights
to use the term any way they want.  It helps our cause in the end.  Because, we are after all, a subset
of a much, much larger group of rock music, much of which we probably don't like too much.


I agree with this sentiment very much. Linguistics and 'coining' phrases or terms is tricky business. Well said clever Brainstormer!!
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:01
Originally posted by dysoriented


Originally posted by The Mystical

I'm not really bothered by the label of 'Progressive Rock". I just love most of the music under this umbrella.

Haha, I'm with you, this is all so serious. Good music is good music, the label is just a bunch of letters :)

Yeah, I'm with you guys on this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote AreYouHuman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2013 at 19:11
Originally posted by stegor

I know it when I hear it. It may not match what you know when you hear it, but that doesn't matter.

Holy crap! Prog is like pornography!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 12:08
prog is like porn cause everyone has their own, distorted view of what it really is. this has been happening for so long and actually a lot of people don't even know what the term prog means or have never heard of it, especially in my world. For instance, when someone asks me ' hey so what music do you listen to?' and I of course reply ' well, I listen to a lot of prog or progressive music.' and more often than not the other person is dumbfounded. 'PROG?! What the f**k is that?

So when I have to describe prog to someone for them to get a clear understanding of what the term means and essentially is I say that the term prog refers to a style of music that is highly instrumental with an epic virtuaso nature that can, and usually does, extend over 10min. I try my best not to give this bloated big response for someone to understand the term cause I know more cases than not it will scar off an individual, but when I am trying to impress a girl I go all out baby!!!
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Metalmarsh89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2013 at 15:01
Originally posted by progbethyname

prog is like porn cause everyone has their own, distorted view of what it really is. this has been happening for so long and actually a lot of people don't even know what the term prog means or have never heard of it, especially in my world. For instance, when someone asks me ' hey so what music do you listen to?' and I of course reply ' well, I listen to a lot of prog or progressive music.' and more often than not the other person is dumbfounded. 'PROG?! What the f**k is that?

So when I have to describe prog to someone for them to get a clear understanding of what the term means and essentially is I say that the term prog refers to a style of music that is highly instrumental with an epic virtuaso nature that can, and usually does, extend over 10min. I try my best not to give this bloated big response for someone to understand the term cause I know more cases than not it will scar off an individual, but when I am trying to impress a girl I go all out baby!!!


I just call it "the music where the only limitation is there are no limitations". I don't think that's always true, but it sounds cool. I also expound on the description more, depending on who I'm talking to.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 00:06
"Prog is not a genre or style. Prog won’t tell you how to live or what to wear. Prog is not about

money or fame. Prog is simply the culmination of all music brought to its greatest possible 

breaking point and, if done right, even further. A grand melting pot where nothing is off limits; 

and all it takes is an open mind, a lofty sense of ambition, and true passion for what music is 

and can be."  I saw this quote the other day, and I've come to agree with it more and more. 

However, I think the original poster in this thread is mistaken: Prog is not necessarily about 

music going through changes (i.e., eras), but is about a single artist/band on a single album 

revealing their souls without pre-set structures, methods, or rules.  Prog is about freedom and

creativity and utilizing all the tools at a band's disposal.  I could go on and on, but I won't.  


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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 10:50
Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome

<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">"Prog is not a genre or style. Prog won’t tell you how to live or what to wear. Prog is not about</span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">money or fame. Prog is simply the culmination of all music brought to its greatest possible </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">breaking point and, if done right, even further. A grand melting pot where nothing is off limits; </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">and all it takes is an open mind, a lofty sense of ambition, and true passion for what music is </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">and can be."  I saw this quote the other day, and I've come to agree with it more and more. </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">However, I think the original poster in this thread is mistaken: Prog is not necessarily about </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">music going through changes (i.e., eras), but is about a single artist/band on a single album </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">revealing their souls without pre-set structures, methods, or rules.  Prog is about freedom and</span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;">creativity and utilizing all the tools at a band's disposal.  I could go on and on, but I won't.  </span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 11.1875px;"></span>


Well this is very well put. :) I like the line where you say it takes a lofty sense of ambition cause its true!! Some prog you gotta work at (listen to quite a bit) to get the full appreciation and understanding. That takes ambition baby
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 10:51
Lol. Look at the nice tech wall paper there!! Ha ha!! ^^
Belhold the power and gift of BEARD! As Damian Wilson sports a beard now his voice somehow got even better than it already was. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 15:04
Originally posted by Second Life Syndrome

"Prog is not ....
 
Wow ... we got a new prophet amidst us!
 
LOL
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Metalmarsh89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:07
According to Zappa, I'm pretty sure it's just words, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote silverpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:18
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89

According to Zappa, I'm pretty sure it's just words, right?


Zappa? More like Hamlet. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:20
As much as I'd like to take credit, that isn't my quote.  I saw it on a Facebook group named "Proggers" or "Progradar".  I follow both of those, but I can't remember which one posted it.  However, I completely agree with it, and it simply put into words some of my own thoughts.  Prog is about unrestrained spirit.  That's slightly vague and abstract, but, then again, the soul of prog is getting to be a deeper and more complex thing the more I contemplate it.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 06:48
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89

According to Zappa, I'm pretty sure it's just words, right?
No, that was the Bee Gees.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 08:28
Originally posted by cstack3

I'm a musician, and have been playing prog for over 40 years.  Prog is an attitude, a frame of mind.  

I could make killer prog with a kazoo (and did once, when I played Bloomdido's blazing sax solo from Gong's "Master Builder" from memory!  My friends were cracking up!!)

...
 
I would like to have you listen to ... PDQ Bach's Seasonings 1/2 Tsp Oratorio ... when you get done, and yes, this is a real piece of music, let me know if you are in one piece!
 
Sometimes, progressive has a magnificent sense of humor but it's not at PA without a sub-genre! Tongue
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you might actually find your own art, or self, and forego lousy heroes or Guru's!

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