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Dream Theater wins March Metal Madness Tournament

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prog4evr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote prog4evr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dream Theater wins March Metal Madness Tournament
    Posted: August 03 2013 at 23:10
Originally posted by zeqexes

I don't really like MoP, but I love I&W, so I'm happy with the result
Always liked "Awake" better than "Images and Words," but DT beats Metallica overall regardless...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2013 at 11:22
Originally posted by Horizons

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
not this thread


Sorry man. I had to say something. Some really selfish thinking going on here. I'll be closing Pandora's nasty box now.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 23:48
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

not this thread

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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 23:06
Well, what I can say about Dream Theater is that they've got a lot of respect and a good following from people who really thoroughly enjoy music. That's all you can ask for and it's nice they won that metal tourney. They deserve it. Anyone who has studied music or understands music theory/composition knows full well that DT are the real deal. Enough said on that matter.

As for review status. I'm glad that here on PA it's a challenge and an honor to be recognized by your peers on this site. Personally, I don't know how administrators can keep track of who is doing what or how is one contributing constructively.
I've noticed some members here on PA got a 4star collab status with in 1 year! I say that is pretty amazing and it is dedication while using all the sites useful tools to contribute to the world of prog.
After all, it's up to us to form the best comprehensive prog database we can, so let's all work together on this and stop bitching who has more stars than others or wants another star. Let's just think of the love for prog itself. Above all, that is what's most important. We should all share our ideas and work together like we've been doing to keep PA#1!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 22:51
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad


Originally posted by dtguitarfan

But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.
Because you're insisting here that the only people who get
collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really
getting experts now, are you. You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.
Wow,
you're on a site that is pretty much inclusive of a broad range of
Progressive rock tastes and this is your argument?Personally I'd
go for Sabbath & Motorhead ahead of pretty much anyone else in a
metal poll but I'm a more casual fan of the genre and don't have a broad
knowledge.


Oh let's not forget Rainbow. I think Rainbow Rising was the birth of Hard Rock. The first album was a bit too soft, but for 1974 it had a lot of character to it. Anyway. Great point Noggi. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:48
Hmm, German beer pub prog. 

Guitars, bass, keys, drums, & accordions? Tongue


Back to the Metal Madness tournament, Images & Words was my favorite album of all the ones they had, and I love MoP and RIP. The best album won, imo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:45
Geoff, with all due respect:
Having been granted the Prog Reviewer status without ever having asked for it and hearing your laments I can only feel a bit of pity for you. I do have the Reviewer status and I use it so little that I wonder if I really deserve it, you on the other hand are (or was) hungry to get it and you did not. It might seem like a very unfair situation from your point of view.

I will never say that I deserved getting the Reviewer status but OK, they offered it, I initially hesitated and I told PA that I thought I was not worthy of it and that I was not the kind of person that would write lots of reviews. They answered me, 'we don't expect you to write any particular number of reviews per x time, you review if you want to and you don't review if you don't want to'. After a couple of exchanged messages assuring me that I was not incurring into any obligations I accepted.

It's not by asking and whining that you get something, often it's all the opposite. PA is just an entertainment hobby for us but this is a message applicable to much more important things in life. Ambition is not a bad thing per se, but all too often if you act in an openly ambitious or arrogant way ('hey look at my credentials and tell me if I'm not a top Prog Metal expert') the others will not like it. Being determined but always humble, and simply showing your strengths by facts instead of claiming them by your own words tends to work much better.

As for the ratings weighting system, I don't get your approach, it's what it is, the owner and Admins of the site decide it, you may criticise it in a civilised and polite way, but don't mix it with your ranting for not having been granted the Reviewer status.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 07:22

What If games are dumb.

It would also appear that letting people down gently to avoid hurting their feelings is also dumb.


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 06:50
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

The one problem I see with being an "expert' in one subgenre, such as prog metal, is it can cause one to overrate bands/albums in that area, while underrating bands/albums in other areas, like a prog metal fan not liking prog rock stuff as much strictly because he prefers metal and he feels the rock stuff isn't ballsy enough for him. Granted, we all have preferences and likings and whatnot, so that is gonna come across with pretty much all of us, but I guess I can see wanting collaborators who are more well-rounded, as they are able to have a bit more perspective across subgenres.  In other words, loving 5 albums in four different subgenres is more impressive than loving 20 albums in a single one.  Diversity is the spice of life!

Let's say one of the sub-genres on this site was something that really no one listens to any more - like german beer pub songs.  By only allowing in people who represent sub-genres like this, you bring this sub-genre more into the forefront than it should be - over representing it.  I'm talking about this site representing other perspectives.  Represent the people who are experts in this sub, and that one, and ones who like these two subs but not others, and just that one, and then you have a more balances approach.  But by insisting "you can't be part of this club unless you meet MY requirements" you are misrepresenting how things actually are, and the 20x weighting adds to that problem.  That's what I'm talking about - anyone who has an interest in being a reviewer or collab should be able to get in as long as they prove they aren't some bot, prove they are making an effort to write decent reviews, and as long as they remain civil.  If someone starts posting things that are rude in their reviews then you remove their reviewer status.  But there shouldn't be this requirement that a person represent a certain array of genres - you're skewing things that way.  You're insisting that other people be like the people who are already in power.  Like I said - if the only people who vote for congress members are congress members, the Republican party, which has gone crazy, would eventually be 100% of Congress.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:40
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

  But lets say, just for the sake of argument, that there are some sub genres that just plain suck.  Because you're insisting here that the only people who get collab/reviewer status are people who like all styles, you're not really getting experts now, are you.  You're insisting on only getting people who have bad taste.

Wow, you're on a site that is pretty much inclusive of a broad range of Progressive rock tastes and this is your argument?

Personally I'd go for Sabbath & Motorhead ahead of pretty much anyone else in a metal poll but I'm a more casual fan of the genre and don't have a broad knowledge.
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:24
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc

You don't think I qualify for "expert" status on the subject of Prog Metal?  Take a look at my credentials:
http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan
 
With all due respect, I feel that your scope is far too limited.  An expert on "Dream Theater -school of Vanilla prog metal," perhaps, but there is a lot more to metal that is progressive than that.  Not to mention influence, origins,



Edited by Triceratopsoil - April 11 2013 at 18:39
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 16:01
Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Let me repeat this just so it's clear -
Stern Smile whatever made you think it was something that a) I didn't get the first time or that b) I was remotely interested?


If you cannot be wise, pretend to be someone who is wise and then just behave like they would - Neil Gaiman
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Biff Tannen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:53
The one problem I see with being an "expert' in one subgenre, such as prog metal, is it can cause one to overrate bands/albums in that area, while underrating bands/albums in other areas, like a prog metal fan not liking prog rock stuff as much strictly because he prefers metal and he feels the rock stuff isn't ballsy enough for him. Granted, we all have preferences and likings and whatnot, so that is gonna come across with pretty much all of us, but I guess I can see wanting collaborators who are more well-rounded, as they are able to have a bit more perspective across subgenres.  In other words, loving 5 albums in four different subgenres is more impressive than loving 20 albums in a single one.  Diversity is the spice of life!
"What are you looking at, butthead?"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:42
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil

 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc

You don't think I qualify for "expert" status on the subject of Prog Metal?  Take a look at my credentials:
http://rateyourmusic.com/~dtguitarfan
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:36
Originally posted by Dean

I've never been a fan of Hugues' reviews - too terse, too hurried and too many of them.
 
I was going to say "incoherent" but that works too.
 
Geoff - I think being "an expert" on something by necessity includes a certain degree of knowledge on related things.  Otherwise there is no frame of reference for comparisons etc


Edited by Triceratopsoil - April 11 2013 at 15:38
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dtguitarfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 15:05
Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by dtguitarfan

Yeah, why is that, Dean?  It's the 20x rating thing - something the collaborators collectively said "yes, we want to change" and yet it hasn't, because we have no control.  It's a bad system, and it's unfair, and you know it - you just don't want to admit it.
It's not a bad system, it is fairer than allowing biploar rating-only's to overrun the system, and I know both those things and freely admit it.
 
I frequently recompute the average rartings for individual albums to see the effects that these bipolar ratings-only idiots would have on an average rating and it is depressing - no album is immune from their abuse and all suffer in varying degrees, some more than others, and yes, it is the high-profile bands that suffer the most.
 
Since I have to do this long-hand I cannot do it for all albums so I cannot predict the effect that removing the weighting system would have on the charts (although you do seem to be able to make these predictions based on no empirical evidence whatsoever, I am not gifted with that prescience). The individual average rating for all albums will change, I cannot predict in which way they would change - it would depend on whether the bipolar-ratings were predominately 1-star or predominately 5-star for each, some wil go up, some will go down and some will remain more or less the same.
 
I would only support the scrapping of the weighting system if we would abolish rating-only at the same time. If we cannot scrap rating-only the we should compute two averages and have two charts.

Let me repeat this just so it's clear - I am not even pushing to get reviewer status anymore, since I seem to have lost the bug.  The other site I used to write for that actually gave me free music has been begging me to write for them again, and I just can't bring myself to do it any more - mostly because it comes with the responsibility to review albums I just don't like, and it's really hard to write a review for an album that you aren't either thrilled with or despise.  So here's my point: the biggest problem I had with being denied reviewer status is that I was told that I was clearly an expert on Prog Metal, but they only want people who have a more balances profile of reviews spanning all or most of the sub-genres.  But here's the problem with that - you're not getting a balanced perspective that way.  On MMA, if someone is an expert on one sub-genre and one sub-genre only - GREAT!  They want everyone there!  Here, you've got this elitist approach where you only want to represent a certain type of perspective, and that's the biggest problem I have with this site.  You're not willing to represent someone who's "clearly an expert" (not my words - that's a quote) on one sub-genre.  And that's crap, plain and simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:15
^ I'll give you that one - he managed to write three times that 50, but it was hardly worth that much effort for the little he managed to say. I've never been a fan of Hugues' reviews - too terse, too hurried and too many of them.

Edited by Dean - April 11 2013 at 13:16


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Biff Tannen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:05
Okay, here is one: Sean Trane's review for The Flower Kings' Space Revolver:

Read my other F K critics as I don't like to repeat myself. But I will have to find something to write if my opinion (which nobody cares for anyway ;-) is to be seen - are we at fifty words yet?

Again , with this album TFK repeats their musical props without changing much of their previous formula. There is of course a solid dose of hard work that going into such an album , (which are finely crafted too and have many positive qualities to their works) >> but I am afraid it is all lost on me. Every single note appears to have been heard in different albums scattered through the prog giants of the 70's.

All kidding aside and not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings but my opinion is: spend your hard earned cash on other Swedish groups that are more worthy of your support.

Okay, he said 50, not 100.  That's even worse. LOL

But really, that is an embarrassing review from a supposed collaborator. 



Edited by Biff Tannen - April 11 2013 at 13:06
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 13:01
memory is such a fickle thing,
I have searched the database and there are many reviews that make such a claim, however all of them from non-Collabs and none from collabs or official Prog Reviewers - try some of smartpatrol's reviews - Andy makes a point of doing it, probably following after that arch reviewer Torodd Fuglestegg who also used to make specific mention of the word count in his reviews just so he could stretch them out by just a few more words. Bah, but there you go Ive named and shamed them both in exactly one hundred words. 


Edited by Dean - April 11 2013 at 13:02


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:46
Originally posted by Biff Tannen

Naming and shaming won't work, since the reviewers would first deny it, and then insist that fans of said bands are just being crybabies because someone gave them bad reviews, ignoring the fact that the content of their reviews were a sham.  It's like a newspaper critic doing a review of a live show in the paper and saying in it they do not like the band in the first place...it's like, you know the review is gonna be bad cause it is more of a reflection of their hate for the band rather than of the actual quality, so what is the point? 

Yes but where did that quote come from?
Coldness doth get away with the badness.
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