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Gerinski View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 18 2013 at 05:52
Alright this is not a nice subject to discuss and for months I have avoided some hesitation whether to bring it to this forum, but finally Blacksword's thread about Memory in which he admitted being taking antidepressants made me take the step to post about it, possibly I'm not alone and perhaps we can share experiences and advice.

Last year my girlfriend for the last 9 years (I would refer to her as 'my wife' even if we were not legally married) decided to leave me. I had moved from my native Spain to Belgium for her and the separation was a big shock in my life. Any divorce which comes from one side only is surely painful for the other side, but it my case there were additional issues, being alone in a foreign country (nothing against Belgium but you know, it's not my homeland), I'm 46 so it triggered also a kind of mid-life crisis, you know, 'I'm 46, alone, in a foreign country, I can't complain but actually I have achieved nothing, what the hell am I living for?' etc. I had to move from her wonderful house to a humble apartment, I had to leave our beloved pets (dog Gaston and 4 cats, you may learn about them in the 'Your Pets' thread) etc etc.

In summary, I have been in sickness leave off work since 1st October 2012, that is 6.5 months now. I work as a mid-high manager in a multinational company and my work entails a lot of pressure and stress, and under these circumstances both the company and myself agreed that I'm not fit to perform again yet, although it's getting better and I don't think it's gonna take much longer before I go back to work.

This is partly the reason why I did not review any albums in a long time, I hardly feel like listening to music, which is the clearest symptom proving that I am not well, and why on the other hand I can follow the forum more closely, during normal working hours, I have little else to do.

I had no idea what a depression was, you can not imagine it unless you have been through one, it's a really dreadful disorder and I don't wish it to anybody.

Any of you having suffered depressions and are you willing to share some of your experiences and / or advice towards recovery?


Edited by Gerinski - April 18 2013 at 05:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rdtprog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:01
You need to find someday else to live as a couple again, you look like someone who can't live alone. I had a friend who was in the same situation as yours and he had 6 years of unhappiness, but he was always trying to find another girl , his efforts finally paid up and he has never been so happy right now.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:22
Living alone is not good for anyone in my opinion.

Since leaving home about 20 years ago, I've shared houses with friends, and lived with girlfriends from time to time. My friends would drive me round the bend with their behaviours!! But, reflecting, I'm better off living with someone.

I've been single for about 6 years, and have been living alone for about 12. My problem now is that I have become so used to my own space, that I'm probably unable to share it with anyone anymore. I don't have much in the way of family, but I'm lucky to have very good friends, and I appreciate that some people don't have that. I tend not to burden them with the specifics of my problems. I find most people, however much they do genuinely care, don't have the skills to discuss depression objectively, and come out with things like "You just need a good night out" or "You don't want to be thinking like that" or " You need to get a grip" etc etc. They mean well, but either don't have a clue or are frightened to talk about it in case they become a sponge for your misery. It's best to speak to a trained professional every couple of weeks or so, because you can say what you want in that environment without the 'politics' and boundaries of friendship controlling the communication.

As far as I'm concerned this is not a taboo subject. People should understand that MOST of us will suffer depression in our lifetimes, be it a reactive depression to a bereavement or similar, an ongoing condition like bi-polar disorder or simply because our skin is too thin and we find the world around us threatening or sad. These are realities and to admit to being in this set is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:41
I haven't had depression but I've met many people who have, and I agree with Blacksword, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
I have done some research in my theology studies, writing my thesis about young people who encountered depression supposedly because of too dogmatic religious convictions, finding out, though, during my research, that in fact there are a multitude of factors which can cause depression, both physical as well as psychical, like hereditary factors, a prolonged period of stress, crisis moments etc.

I don't find myself an expert on this subject, though. I nowhere near being a doctor and a psychiatrist. I did find out in my personal life, that even for a highly individualistic person like me, it was better not to live alone. Still, living together is not a guarantee to avoid depression. But an isolated life is a high risk factor, I think. But once again, I'm not a doctor, and I would always advice people to go to one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:52
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

I haven't had depression but I've met many people who have, and I agree with Blacksword, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
I have done some research in my theology studies, writing my thesis about young people who encountered depression supposedly because of too dogmatic religious convictions, finding out, though, during my research, that in fact there are a multitude of factors which can cause depression, both physical as well as psychical, like hereditary factors, a prolonged period of stress, crisis moments etc.
I don't find myself an expert on this subject, though. I nowhere near being a doctor and a psychiatrist. I did find out in my personal life, that even for a highly individualistic person like me, it was better not to live alone. Still, living together is not a guarantee to avoid depression. But an isolated life is a high risk factor, I think. But once again, I'm not a doctor, and I would always advice people to go to one.


An isolated life is very much a risk factor. You're quite right.

Living with someone can help a great deal. A partner can spot changes in your behaviour and demeanour which you yourself may not even be aware of. They can encourage you to seek help and be supportive to you. If you live alone a worsening of your condition may go completely unnoticed until it's too late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:03
I think everyone on PA would be genuinely sympathetic to any member undergoing such a traumatic series of life experiences as the OP. However (and I don't mean to be harsh) is confiding in people you have never/are never likely to meet necessarily conducive to recovery? I know that it's often said it's easier to confide in a complete stranger but this strikes me as symptomatic of the priest/sinner arrangement where anonymity is exchanged for guilt in the transaction. I am also 'estranged' from my wife and went through a very bad period where I lapsed into an angry resentful state which alienated many of those closest to me. Mercifully they forgave me (and those who really love you Gerinski will forgive your acts committed in the darkest troughs of despair)
That's why it's very important to get out, circulate and meet those people you count as your friends. Don't lock yourself away to ruminate on real/imaginary shortcomings - the rest of your life starts now. You will receive the support you need from those who love you (not a discussion forum) I'm an abrasive bugger so apologies but I'm always sincere and I hope this helps.


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 18 2013 at 07:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:29
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


I think everyone on PA would be genuinely sympathetic to any member undergoing such a traumatic series of life experiences as the OP. However (and I don't mean to be harsh) is confiding in people you have never/are never likely to meet necessarily conducive to recovery? I know that it's often said it's easier to confide in a complete stranger but this strikes me as symptomatic of the priest/sinner arrangement where anonymity is exchanged for guilt in the transaction. I am also 'estranged' from my wife and went through a very bad period where I lapsed into an angry resentful state which alienated many of those closest to me. Mercifully they forgave me (and those who really love you Gerinski will forgive your acts committed in the darkest troughs of despair)That's why it's very important to get out, circulate and meet those people you count as your friends. Don't lock yourself away to ruminate on real/imaginary shortcomings - the rest of your life starts now. You will receive the support you need from those who love you (not a discussion forum) I'm an abrasive bugger so apologies but I'm always sincere and I hope this helps.


I agree with much of this, and I don't think you come across particularly unsympathetic.

That said, I also don't see any harm in discussing these things on a forum. The level of detail one chooses to go into is up to them, and to be honest offloading anywhere may be conducive in part to recovery for that individual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:37
As someone who has fought with depression around this time last year, but who managed to get help on time, and yet is still fighting not to relapse because of several recent events, allow me to give you some advice.

First of, yes! depression is one of the most horrendous things that can happen to an individual, an odious combination of hopelessness, helplessness and quick anger. However, the good news is you can overcome that so long as you are willing take action.

Of course, the first step is, since your self-diagnosis is depression, is to actually seek a counselor/psychologist who you can trust and have them confirm or disprove this, and see together what the next logical steps are from there onwards.

In the mean time, start doing things you used to enjoy: listen to albums, try and write some reviews etc. Now, you might find that you won't be liking these as much as in the good ol' days. The trick is to actually do it and not evaluate yourself or the final result of your actions (this could be the case when you might return to work as well). Congratulate yourself for trying and for actually getting out of the routine or what is now a comfort zone of doing nothing. It's a huge step! And then start doing them again. No-one can fail all the time. Plus remember, everything that happens to us and affects us one way or the other, has to do with our perception of said occurrences.

Another thing, try to be as independent as possible in order to be in control of your emotional life. You don't need someone in order to validate your sense of 'worth'. Like Dr Bruns said (whose book "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy', I highly recommend) being independent means your moods will not fluctuate because of someone else's moods. This shortly covers the past relationship aspect.

As for being alone in a foreign country, yes, this might seem problematic. But Belgium is one of those very cosmopolitan states, where you can make friends both with the natives and people from the international environment. Look up groups that undertake activities you like and join them, or start one yourself. If this doesn't work, you might want to consider returning to your home country and starting a new life there, if you can find a stable job. There still are possibilities, even at this age. It's never too late.

But the main thing of all this, is to start taking action and go to a psychologist. Best of luck to you! Hug

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 07:38
Being in a depression right now myself, I can't really give advice - or only bad advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 08:45
I'm in perpertual depression for quite a long time now so I wouldn't make any judgements on my common state, but remembering my past experiences I can remember a pretty short, but very vivid experience I had three years ago or so.

I remember, I was counting each day I live. Or more precisely, how may days I have to live yet. It was like: 'Oh, it's monday. Seven more days until sunday... five more days, four... Three weeks until February, and then two months until snow will start to melt...'

I lived in constant darkness, I haven't seen anything positive in upcoming days, my future looked like an empty black hole with dread incoming from its depths.

I also remember I couldn't listen to anything except for Led Zeppelin's 'No Quarter'. That slow oppressing song was the best representation of what I felt at that time, so it became a kind of a hymn of mine.

That condition, fortunately, didn't lasted for long and in a few weeks I got better.

Can't give any advices yet... back in those days I just had to wait until something would change around.


Edited by ole-the-first - April 18 2013 at 08:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 08:51
It's not uncommon to stop listening to music altogether, or indeed partaking in anything you would normally enjoy. When I'm low because all I do is shut myself off and watch endless news. Not a very healthy pursuit!

My condition is such that the depression comes in waves which can last weeks or months, and I can now spot when the black clouds are gathering. This doesn't have to be triggered by anything specific.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Garten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:29
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Living with someone can help a great deal. A partner can spot changes in your behaviour and demeanour which you yourself may not even be aware of. They can encourage you to seek help and be supportive to you. If you live alone a worsening of your condition may go completely unnoticed until it's too late.


And there's the key.

I was eventually diagnosed with depression 13 years ago after being virtually frog-marched to the doctor by my wife, who'd suffered my constant mood swings for (let's just say) long enough - she used to go swimming with a friend a couple of times a week - not only because she enjoyed it, but to get away from me for a few hours   

Once the diagnosis was in & the meds started kicking in, it was as if a weight had been lifted from my shoulders; none of our friends were aware of my problem at the time, as when you're out, having a laugh, everything seems OK, until you get back to your regular routine & spiral down again (how Vicky stayed put is still a mystery to me).

The next step was to accept I would be on meds more or less constantly for the rest of my life - this was difficult to get my head around until Vicky suggested it was no different than my having been diagnosed with a different condition (eg diabetes) where I would have to take daily meds to stay on an even keel - and that's what SSRIs do, they're not 'happy pills', they just stop the serotonin re-uptake gland taking it all back & keep you on an even keel; you still get pissed off occasionally, you still get 'down' occasionally (EVERYBODY DOES ), but the trick is to recognise it for what it is & to recognise the symptoms of a possible downward spiral - if ever I'm unsure, I just ask Vicky, or one of my friends - all of whom now know of my condition.

That's another thing - explain to your friends & family what's happening, how it can affect you & why; not as a sympathy thing, just straightforward information. Remember, in most cases, depression is simply a physical condition caused by an over-active serotonin re-uptake gland (SSRI = Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor)... all together now:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 09:52
The biggest thing I learned from my bout with depression is that when I decided to give up alcohol (after abusing it for many years), most of my problems magically went away.  Ironically, I had been drinking largely to cope with the depression.  So that's been a big incentive for me to stay off the bottle, and life has been reasonably peachy ever since.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:16
Thanks to all for the responses.

For sure I am under doctor's help, otherwise I could not be in work sickness leave. For the first 4 months it was just a normal doctor but since it didn't get better 2 months ago I started with a psychiatrist. I'm also taking medication, tried 3 different ones already, first Duloxetine but it gave me a lot of nightmares and I felt continuously like a zombie, then Escitalopram stopped the nightmares but I would still feel zombie, for the last 3 months I have been taking Fluoxetine and although the progress is very slow, I have been getting better and the side effects are very mild if any.

I did not try any psychologist, the cost is not covered by the insurance and I had a bad experience with one in the past where I spent quite a lot of money and didn't help at all.

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

You need to find someday else to live as a couple again, you look like someone who can't live alone. I had a friend who was in the same situation as yours and he had 6 years of unhappiness, but he was always trying to find another girl , his efforts finally paid up and he has never been so happy right now.  

All the contrary, I have never been the kind of guy who needs a couple, I am rather asocial and I lived alone until I was 38, with girlfriends now and then, some more serious than others but never really living together. When I was 33 I left Spain alone to spend 3 years abroad as an expatriate for my work, then I spent also 1 year in Italy alone. I have no problem being alone, rather the contrary, I'm very fine alone, but with my Belgian ex-girlfriend Katia it seemed like I had found the only woman I would be happy living with.

Anyway I am hopeful that time heals it all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:28
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

it's very important to get out, circulate and meet those people you count as your friends. Don't lock yourself away to ruminate on real/imaginary shortcomings - the rest of your life starts now. You will receive the support you need from those who love you (not a discussion forum) I'm an abrasive bugger so apologies but I'm always sincere and I hope this helps.
That was not harsh at all, I appreciate it.
My true friends are in Spain and I am not very social, even with them I tend to minimise the situation so that they do not worry about me. It's my problem and it's up to me to get out of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:33
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

 
That's another thing - explain to your friends & family what's happening, how it can affect you & why; not as a sympathy thing, just straightforward information. Remember, in most cases, depression is simply a physical condition caused by an over-active serotonin re-uptake gland (SSRI = Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor)... all together now:


Thanks Jim,

All my friends and sisters / brother know about it and they are very sympathetic. I did not tell anything to my father and his wife, they are old and I don't want them to have another reason to worry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jim Garten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:36
Completely understandable - my mother is the only one who is unaware, too.

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I have been taking Fluoxetine and although the progress is very slow, I have been getting better and the side effects are very mild if any


Fluoxetine is one of the better drugs with the fewest side effects; also one of the oldest ones (the most common trade name for it is Prozac) - one I'd be very cautious of if recommended is Seroxat. Works well for some, buit with others can have really unpleasant side effects - I started having major panic attacks 2 days after beginning the course (that was when my GP put me onto Cipramil, which is the best I've found) & there is a history of it causing really nasty episodes in people - that said, some people swear by it, so it's all down to individual metabolisms, I guess.

Edited by Jim Garten - April 18 2013 at 10:40

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:36
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

The biggest thing I learned from my bout with depression is that when I decided to give up alcohol (after abusing it for many years), most of my problems magically went away.  Ironically, I had been drinking largely to cope with the depression.  So that's been a big incentive for me to stay off the bottle, and life has been reasonably peachy ever since.
I have to learn from that (nothing new that I did not know already), since the nightmare started I am drinking too much Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:44
The worst thing about depression is that you are not able to enjoy anything. Normally I enjoy listening to music, reading books, watching good movies, visiting things, keeping my place nice and clean... with the depression I don't feel like doing anything at all, I try listening to music and it annoys me, I try reading and after 1 page I put the book down, I try to watch a movie and it bores me, my place is dirty and I don't feel like cleaning, I try to go out for a walk and I feel like threatened, just wanting to be back to 'safe home' again...  pfffff, it's sh*t Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:53
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Completely understandable - my mother is the only one who is unaware, too.

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I have been taking Fluoxetine and although the progress is very slow, I have been getting better and the side effects are very mild if any


Fluoxetine is one of the better drugs with the fewest side effects; also one of the oldest ones (the most common trade name for it is Prozac) - one I'd be very cautious of if recommended is Seroxat. Works well for some, buit with others can have really unpleasant side effects - I started having major panic attacks 2 days after beginning the course (that was when my GP put me onto Cipramil, which is the best I've found) & there is a history of it causing really nasty episodes in people - that said, some people swear by it, so it's all down to individual metabolisms, I guess.


Prozac was the first one tried about 13 years ago. Apart from very slight shakes in the morning it actually had no effect on me whatsoever, positive or otherwise. The next one I tried was Venlafaxine, which improved my mood slightly, but robbed me of all libido, and I would wake up in the morning with clenched jaws after a night of teeth grinding, according to a partner at the time.

I guess everyone has different experiences with these drugs, but Mirtazapine has been the only one that has not had any bad side effects for me. Apart from memory loss?? Although that could just be attributed to the condition anyway.
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