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The UFO Phenomenon

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TeleStrat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeleStrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 02:03
When I say "real time' I'm referring to the actual speed that our space crafts are able to go now. For example, the time it took for the Apollo missions to travel to the moon and back. At that rate of speed, any further space exploration is not possible. How long did it take a probe to get to Mars?
I totally agree that that the war on drugs has been one of the biggest wastes of money in my lifetime. And after spending all of that money the drug situation is many times worse than it was forty years ago.
The discovery thing is just my way of saying that I think there are secrets in the universe that we have not yet discovered but, maybe we're not supposed to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 02:32
It takes about 1 year to get to Mars, which I think puts the space-craft's speed at something like 9,000 km/hr, but this is not the fastest speed a space probe has achieved. But yes, those are pedestrian compared to the speeds required for interstellar travel. I would define "real time" as the time taken to move any mass over a distance regardless of speed.

I cannot accept "maybe we're not supposed to" because of what that implies. I will merely say that there are things that we would like to exist that simply do not exist so we can never discover them, and I would class FTL travel and perpetual motion as things we would like to exist that probably do not.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 03:56
Where are all the increasing spates of sightings that should've been occurring over the past few years?  The 90s were full of unknown craft caught on video, now it seems like a trickle. 
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 03:59
Quite, there are certainly several magnitudes more video cameras around now than in the 90s and the technology of those cameras has improved beyond recognition. This means that there should be even more sightings, not less.

And I think that is indicative of the "unidentified" being a lot easier to identify with modern technology than it was with the emergent technology of the 90s - a case in point being the "alien rods" that were the result of an artefact of the video camera technology.


Edited by Dean - January 29 2015 at 04:00

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 04:08
I used to go to a club called Alien Rod's

One also wonders if some of those UFOs in the 90s were early drone tech





Edited by Atavachron - January 29 2015 at 04:19
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walton Street Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 07:38
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

If earthlings have to rely on 'real time travel' to explore space then we may as well just stay home and spend the billions (or trillions) of dollars on something more important.
Without any major discoveries in alternative forms of travel (like worm holes, time warps or even warp drive) we're not going anywhere.
Why are we going anyway? What do we hope to find? 
Our galaxy has a few hundred billion stars and planets and who knows how many galaxies there are in the universe?
What were we thinking when we decided to explore space?
We cannot discover what is not there to be discovered. 

Ignoring for a moment everything I have said about the practical impossibility of FTL (inc theoretical wormholes, fictional time warps and warp-drives). 

If interstellar travel is measured in thousands of years then inter-galaxy travel is measured in millions of years. The nearest galaxy to our own is 28,000ly away, (i.e., 264,900,000,000,000,000km), so even at light-speed it would take 28,000 years to get there (at 1x light-speed it would take 2.1 million years to reach Andromeda) so once we start talking about visiting other galaxies in the Universe then even FTL travel becomes problematic to a short-lived species such as ourselves.

What we can investigate and explore is our local neighbourhood, and there are enough unknowns contained within that to keep us occupied for many years to come.
 
yes to this and your previous post ... which is why I always found the ufo thing to be a lark.
Like all things fanciful they are fun to dwell on and it makes us more interesting than we really are
 
the best we can do with the technology we're ever likely to develop - is to colonize the moon - which is a depressing thought to say the least.
How uninhabitable would the earth have to be before we thought that living on a dead rock would be a good alternative.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeleStrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 08:35
This subject (the original post) is fun to discuss but eventually it's time to stand up, state your opinion, and sit back down.
Has Earth been visited by any alien life form?
I say no, we haven't.
There is no proof of a visitation and there is no proof of a cover up of a visitation.

I'm originally from Missouri which is the "Show Me" state. If you want me to believe that something is true you have to show me that it's true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Walton Street Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 08:47
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

This subject (the original post) is fun to discuss but eventually it's time to stand up, state your opinion, and sit back down.
Has Earth been visited by any alien life form?
I say no, we haven't.
There is no proof of a visitation and there is no proof of a cover up of a visitation.

I'm originally from Missouri which is the "Show Me" state. If you want me to believe that something is true you have to show me that it's true.
 
yeah - even if it was possible that offworlders could visit (and I don't believe it's possible)
who's to say they'd care if they were seen ?
 
 
there'd be more evidence than could ever be covered up.
 
same as ghosts ..
even if the tiniest percentage of dead people met the mysterious criteria for being a ghost, they'd be everywhere ... it would be a driving hazard.
Not just seen by the usual crackpot looking for attention.
 
funny as technology gets better and everyone carries a fairly hi res camera in their pocket, you see less of these things being reported despite the social media platform as well.
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 08:54
If the answer is No because the universe is too vast to be cohesively and completely traversed even by a race that had the means, which is to say even if they could they still likely wouldn't just 'run into us', that means there probably are sentient alien forms that could or could have already theoretically visited the Earth.   In other words, No.



"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeleStrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 09:11
I used to jokingly say that we've probably been monitored but we suck so much that they want nothing to do with us.
I also used to say that I was abducted by aliens once but all they wanted was my social security number.
But I was informed that it was not politically correct to say that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2015 at 14:10
An interesting interview by perhaps the foremost researcher into ufos over the last 50 years or so.
Dr Jacques Vallee (btw he was the model for the Frenchman Lacombe in the film 'Close Encounters'..)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Only Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:18
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I totally agree that that the war on drugs has been one of the biggest wastes of money in my lifetime. And after spending all of that money the drug situation is many times worse than it was forty years ago.

The war on drugs keeps many people employed: police, lawyers, rehab staff, prison staff etc. I'd say some of them are quite happy that the money keeps flowing from the taxpayers, they probably don't want the 'war' to end. Maybe it was never their intention to 'win' the 'war'.

Same with the military industrial complex, they need wars or at least military tension between countries to keep that money flowing from the taxpayers to their pockets.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeleStrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:46
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

I totally agree that that the war on drugs has been one of the biggest wastes of money in my lifetime. And after spending all of that money the drug situation is many times worse than it was forty years ago.

The war on drugs keeps many people employed: police, lawyers, rehab staff, prison staff etc. I'd say some of them are quite happy that the money keeps flowing from the taxpayers, they probably don't want the 'war' to end. Maybe it was never their intention to 'win' the 'war'.

Same with the military industrial complex, they need wars or at least military tension between countries to keep that money flowing from the taxpayers to their pockets.
The money thing is absolutely true but we have more than enough violent criminals to keep the legal, judicial and penal systems going strong. 
I'd rather see my tax dollars put a murderer in prison instead of a crack head.
Money pertains to this thread as well. Why are we spending countless millions (billions) of dollars on space exploration when we know that we can't really go anywhere. 
Even if a probe discovered something interesting on the closest planet we could never get there.
I don't care where the "space" money is coming from but it is being wasted.
There's an old saying, "Don't throw good money after bad".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Only Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2015 at 11:58
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Money pertains to this thread as well. Why are we spending countless millions (billions) of dollars on space exploration when we know that we can't really go anywhere. 
Even if a probe discovered something interesting on the closest planet we could never get there.
I don't care where the "space" money is coming from but it is being wasted.
There's an old saying, "Don't throw good money after bad".

Maybe some of the investors think that some of the space exploration technology will be able to be 'spun off' into consumer goods?

For example, in Japan after World War Two, some of the early 'bullet train' and heavy industry engineers and designers used knowledge and techniques they had developed making military tech and adapted it to civilian applications.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeleStrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2015 at 12:22
I haven't really been following it but some companies in the private sector are getting into the space business.
One of them was saying that some day people will be able to take a commercial shuttle into space just for the experience.
If that day comes I can only imagine what those tickets would cost.
So yes, money does play a big part in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2015 at 18:28
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Money pertains to this thread as well. Why are we spending countless millions (billions) of dollars on space exploration when we know that we can't really go anywhere. 
Even if a probe discovered something interesting on the closest planet we could never get there.
I don't care where the "space" money is coming from but it is being wasted.
There's an old saying, "Don't throw good money after bad".

Maybe some of the investors think that some of the space exploration technology will be able to be 'spun off' into consumer goods?

For example, in Japan after World War Two, some of the early 'bullet train' and heavy industry engineers and designers used knowledge and techniques they had developed making military tech and adapted it to civilian applications.


I mean even assuming a lack of satellite uses of the technology and placing the value of knowledge of the cosmos as zero, you're still kind of assuming that the money would be otherwise allocated fruitfully which seems decidedly not true.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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