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Stool Man 
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 Topic: The fathers of Prog Metal
Posted: April 30 2013 at 03:49 |
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Rush as the fathers of Prog Metal? I consider Black Sabbath were moreso. What do you think?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
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Location: Là, sui monti.
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Points: 10837
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 04:06 |
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Other: Thin Lizzy.
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b_olariu
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 02 2007
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 5531
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 04:46 |
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Black Sabbath were the father of everything that anyone is hearing today in rock, metal music.
If for prog metal, I don't think Rush or BS, more like Fates Warning to me.
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ProgMetaller2112
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Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 04:59 |
 CPicard wrote:
Other: Thin Lizzy.
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Uh....No! This is for Stool Man. I don't think Sabbath ever made any concepts, incorporated keyboard sounds that harken back to other Prog bands, just sayin!  As much as I love Sabbath they never reached the level of musicianship of Rush
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 30 2013 at 05:05
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Stool Man
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Location: Anti-Cool (anag
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Points: 2689
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 05:32 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Other: Thin Lizzy.
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Uh....No!
This is for Stool Man. I don't think Sabbath ever made any concepts, incorporated keyboard sounds that harken back to other Prog bands, just sayin!
As much as I love Sabbath they never reached the level of musicianship of Rush
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Since their first album was recorded just after the release of KC's debut, there weren't any other prog bands for them to harken back to. Just sayin!  And who said anything about reaching this-or-that level of musicianship? Sabbath had made all of their best albums before Rush made any albums at all, they weren't aiming to outdo them or anyone else.
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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ProgMetaller2112
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Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
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Points: 3145
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 05:40 |
Stool Man wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Other: Thin Lizzy.
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Uh....No!
This is for Stool Man. I don't think Sabbath ever made any concepts, incorporated keyboard sounds that harken back to other Prog bands, just sayin!
As much as I love Sabbath they never reached the level of musicianship of Rush
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Since their first album was recorded just after the release of KC's debut, there weren't any other prog bands for them to harken back to. Just sayin! And who said anything about reaching this-or-that level of musicianship? Sabbath had made all of their best albums before Rush made any albums at all, they weren't aiming to outdo them or anyone else. |
But Sabbath was hardly Prog, I agree that they have elements but that doesn't make them Prog. Sabbath were fathers of Metal. Prog, I'm not so sure about that. Tell me who do Progressive Metal bands look to as an influence(Symphony X, Dream Theater, Iron Maiden(debatable), Meshuggah, Mastodon). The influence is undeniable, come on!
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 30 2013 at 05:43
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Stool Man
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2007
Location: Anti-Cool (anag
Status: Offline
Points: 2689
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 05:43 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Stool Man wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Other: Thin Lizzy.
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Uh....No!
This is for Stool Man. I don't think Sabbath ever made any concepts, incorporated keyboard sounds that harken back to other Prog bands, just sayin!
As much as I love Sabbath they never reached the level of musicianship of Rush
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Since their first album was recorded just after the release of KC's debut, there weren't any other prog bands for them to harken back to. Just sayin! And who said anything about reaching this-or-that level of musicianship? Sabbath had made all of their best albums before Rush made any albums at all, they weren't aiming to outdo them or anyone else. |
But Sabbath was hardly Prog, I agree that they have elements but that doesn't make them Prog. Sabbath were fathers of Metal. Prog, I'm not so sure about that. Tell me who do Progressive Metal bands look to as an influence(Symphony X, Dream Theater, Iron Maiden(debatable), Meshuggah, Mastodon, King's X). The influence is undeniable, come on!
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from PA's front page, a moment ago: Black Sabbath's page is currently the 2nd most viewed on this website in the last 24 hours. Not Prog?
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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sleeper
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
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Points: 16449
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 05:47 |
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^They have a new album coming out, that's hardly a surprise.
Black Sabbath have an undeniable influence on all metal pretty much, Rush have a very strong influence over vanilla prog metal but little over bands in Exp/Post and Tech/Extreme.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Points: 4287
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:16 |
Sabbath & Zepplin & Purple was the fathers of Heavy/Metal, King Crimson (and to some degree Yes) was the father(s) of Heavy-Prog.
They had a child (in a strange 4 way marriage) called Prog Metal
Ruch was the unknown cusin of Sabbath/Zep/Purple, he later grew up to become a bigger (hard) rock band, and made some very important heavy prog albums, before the 80's dead arrow got him, but thats another story.
Edited by tamijo - April 30 2013 at 06:16
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5091
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:17 |
One could also consider Queen with their 2 first albums. Sabbath, fathers of Heavy Metal I could more or less agree, but of Prog-Metal, no. |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
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Points: 23098
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:22 |
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High Tide's Sea Shanties anyone? Pretty close methinks, but when we are talking about fathering a style of music, I believe it has to be a band that put out a series of albums, almost like a sonic blueprint of what was to come, and Black Sabbath did just that - and more.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:23 |
Other. Ironing Maiden. None of the other suggestions thus far are Metal. However, wait for someone to suggest: Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Steppenwolf, Atomic Rooster, Grand Funk Railroad, The Kinks, King Crimson, Budgie, Scorpions, Judas Priest, Uriah Heep...  |
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What?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:34 |
Gerinski wrote:
One could also consider Queen with their 2 first albums.Sabbath, fathers of Heavy Metal I could more or less agree, but of Prog-Metal, no. |
Your post just made me realise, that my brain interpreted prog metal as heavy metal......(I got up at 6 this morning, so that may have something to do with it) I tend to agree with Dean about Maiden. A lot of what they brought to the table is still being used - vigorously!
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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tamijo
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Location: Denmark
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Points: 4287
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:34 |
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and Nazereth
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:36 |
Are we looking for the fathers of......... or the first ?
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Stool Man
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:43 |
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Not the first
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rotten hound of the burnie crew
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 06:57 |
Dean wrote:
Other. Ironing Maiden. None of the other suggestions thus far are Metal. However, wait for someone to suggest:, , Atomic Rooster, Grand Funk Railroad, The Kinks, King Crimson, Budgie, Scorpions, Judas Priest, Uriah Heep... |
 Iron Butterfly: Psychedlic and Heavy Metal but not considered Prog Blue Cheer:Hard Rock nothing more Steppenwolf:  Atomic Rooster: But are they Metal??? Grand Funk Railroad: Hard Rock and Blues Rock The Kinks: Ahh, this next one is interesting: King Crimson: Sure they had heavy material but were they angry enough, any concepts?? Budgie: Metal but not "Proggy" enough Scorpions: Judas Priest: Good one there but Caress of Steel and Fly by Night came out before Sad Wings Uriah Heep:  Heavy Prog as they are labeled here on PA
Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - April 30 2013 at 07:13
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 07:13 |
Dean wrote:
Other. Ironing Maiden. None of the other suggestions thus far are Metal. However, wait for someone to suggest: Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Steppenwolf, Atomic Rooster, Grand Funk Railroad, The Kinks, King Crimson, Budgie, Scorpions, Judas Priest, Uriah Heep... |
Actually, I could buy the Uriah Heep option, but not as much as Deep Purple or, let's say, Vanilla Fudge and Iron Butterfly. To be a more serious tone, I would also consider the possible influence of some thrash-metal bands on the prog-metal genre (of course, Metallica and Megadeth rather than Slayer or Anthrax).
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 07:40 |
Well, that slice of British sarcasm fell on tone-deaf ears.
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What?
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10837
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Posted: April 30 2013 at 07:54 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
As much as I love Sabbath they never reached the level of musicianship of Rush
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Indeed, in regard of musicianship, the Sabs were waaaaay above Rush. At least, the Brummies had good songs... (Yu mad?)
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