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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2013 at 21:18
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

*sigh*
 
There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.
 
And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify  or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.
 
Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.
 
Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.
 
Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.
 
Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.
 

This Clap

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2013 at 20:56
Oh well, I consider Progressive rock as little more than just the name of the genre, and Prog rock as just the short name for Progressive. If we wanted to include only the bands that have progressed rock beyond what it was before they existed, there would be very few bands within the genre... and some of them wouldn't have the caracteristics we love so much about prog (I mean, at some point Punk and 80's synth pop would have been prog).

Oh yeah, and if the name of the genre actually had to define literally the bands, then I guess there just couldn't be any Heavy Metal... I mean, what would that be?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2013 at 14:28
www.maendisilaarchives.com Wink of course it's a broken link.
 
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2013 at 14:08
^Well obviously I agree,  I don't need to always say it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2013 at 13:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

*sigh*
...
   
Specially the nasty post above! I thought I was bad! But I think Trice is right ... however, the discussion is not worthy Trice ... ex ... go back 200 years and look at "romantic" ... same thing ... "passionate" would be more appropriate, even to an extreme.
 
All in all, the only bit that I would like to add, is that we have a tendency to think that it only happened during the beginning of time with Adam and Eve and thus, no one else can have that priviledge or ability! Sadly, even that book is a horrible translation and a lot of stuff that was taken almost verbatim of Hindu and Summerian mythologies!
 
We're not that far apart! Guess what? ... COPIES!
 
Just wearing different tshirts and pants!
  
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

...
Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.
 
Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.
... 
 
The Professor has spoken!
 
Lock the thread before SD adds his agreement! Beer


Edited by moshkito - May 07 2013 at 08:44
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 19:16
If you get too hung up on the terminology then you really aren't appreciating the music for what it is.  So pat yourself on the back for being more clever than the rest of us...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 17:43
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:


I propose to make this the top sticky post and name it "Please read before posting anything about Prog vs progressive"


I was thinking something similar, sort of like the Prog equivalent of saying "You must be this tall to go on this ride."
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 11:52
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Lord_Adon Lord_Adon wrote:

Well I am new to the forum, and was not aware that people bring this up. Was just looking for some thread points LOL
Welcome Just be aware that everything you'll ever want to discuss, has been discussed before ad nauseum on these forums, so please just start 'fun' threads and 'What is your favourite pie' polls, and you'll get on with everyone just fine..

LOL

I must start a pie thread.


I'm in for that idea. I'm an idiot by trade. I can contribute.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 10:27
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Lord_Adon Lord_Adon wrote:

Well I am new to the forum, and was not aware that people bring this up. Was just looking for some thread points LOL


Welcome

Just be aware that everything you'll ever want to discuss, has been discussed before ad nauseum on these forums, so please just start 'fun' threads and 'What is your favourite pie' polls, and you'll get on with everyone just fine..



Well that's no fun. How in the world do we pick the brains of the dinosaurs and the experts here without creating controversial threads topics?

But I do love pie! Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 10:25
Like Mademoiselle Nobs you mean ? Big smile


Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 09:57
Ermm At this juncture someone usualy enters the room carrying a dog-eard copy of Pet Sounds under their arm...

Edited by Dean - May 02 2013 at 09:58
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 09:45
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

I'm reading a bit in a book by one of the folks who think they know a bit more than the ordinary about prog rock these days, and a band mentioned as having a part in the development of the genre is Rolling Stones. Without ever described as progressive per se I'll hastily add.

I think it would be helpful in debates such as this to compare progressive with mainstream rather than comparing progressive with progressive. If you want to look at the difference between apples and pears, actually looking at apples and pears is so much better than than looking at apples trying to see if some of them look more like pears.
On"Pigs Might Fly" which is about the Pink Floyd's history Rolling Stones are barely mentioned and never as influencers, neither for the psych-blues of the Floyd's very beginnings. In terms of psychedelia the Beatles have been more important as influencers than the Stones. I don't see any relationship between Strones and prog. The closest thing they have done is I think 20000 Light Year From Home, really too few 

Quoted from somewhere else. Without implying that this an opinion I share, but a factoid I've come across in other places as well.

"Even established bands of the time began to experiment with the rock sound, such as the Moody Blues, who recorded their Days of Futures Past album with conductor Peter Knight and the London Symphony Orchestra. Even the Rolling Stones also got into the act (and divided their fan and critical base in the process) with the psychedelic Their Satanic Majesties Request."
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 09:03
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

I'm reading a bit in a book by one of the folks who think they know a bit more than the ordinary about prog rock these days, and a band mentioned as having a part in the development of the genre is Rolling Stones. Without ever described as progressive per se I'll hastily add.

I think it would be helpful in debates such as this to compare progressive with mainstream rather than comparing progressive with progressive. If you want to look at the difference between apples and pears, actually looking at apples and pears is so much better than than looking at apples trying to see if some of them look more like pears.
On"Pigs Might Fly" which is about the Pink Floyd's history Rolling Stones are barely mentioned and never as influencers, neither for the psych-blues of the Floyd's very beginnings. In terms of psychedelia the Beatles have been more important as influencers than the Stones. I don't see any relationship between Strones and prog. The closest thing they have done is I think 20000 Light Year From Home, really too few 
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 08:45
I'm reading a bit in a book by one of the folks who think they know a bit more than the ordinary about prog rock these days, and a band mentioned as having a part in the development of the genre is Rolling Stones. Without ever described as progressive per se I'll hastily add.

I think it would be helpful in debates such as this to compare progressive with mainstream rather than comparing progressive with progressive. If you want to look at the difference between apples and pears, actually looking at apples and pears is so much better than than looking at apples trying to see if some of them look more like pears.
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 08:27
I think the OP confuses "exciting" as an adjective with "Progressive" as a genre/movement

...or what Dean explained already Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 07:59
Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Christian Vander did the most intelligent thing by inventing a new word to define his music. Why don't we do the same? Instead of "progressive" let's call it "Maendisila". (I have composed this work taking the first half from the Swahili and the second half from the Malesian words for progressive. Wink 

A word without a meaning can be the solution.


Then there would be arguments about whether band A was neo-Maendisila or crossover-Maendisila.

We're neither, we're Indo-Raga-Maendisila (on ice)

I don't think that theremins fit into the Indo-Raga-Maendisila subgenre. Geek
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 07:54
Originally posted by King Crimson776 King Crimson776 wrote:

Progressive music actually does have something to do with actual innovation. Fusing rock with the broader composition of classical represents the farthest that rock can be taken, and the greatest amount of possibilities/variations in the style. It's easier to be original playing prog than any other popular music style (to me this is the most intuitively obvious thing in the world, but some have a hard time with it).


Sure - in 1969
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 07:27
The answer is simple :
"The Creative is tamed by Kên, Keeping Still.  This produces great power, a
situation in contrast to that of the ninth hexagram, Hsiao Ch'u, THE
TAMING POWER OF THE SMALL, in which the Creative is tamed by the
Gentle alone. There one weak line must tame five strong lines, but here four
strong lines are restrained by two weak lines; in addition to a minister, there
is a prince, and the restraining power therefore is afar stronger."

Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 07:13
LOL
I must start a pie thread.
[/QUOTE]

Great, now I'm hungry . . .
Welcome to the middle of the film.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 06:55
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Christian Vander did the most intelligent thing by inventing a new word to define his music. Why don't we do the same? Instead of "progressive" let's call it "Maendisila". (I have composed this work taking the first half from the Swahili and the second half from the Malesian words for progressive. Wink 

A word without a meaning can be the solution.


Then there would be arguments about whether band A was neo-Maendisila or crossover-Maendisila.

We're neither, we're Indo-Raga-Maendisila (on ice)
rotten hound of the burnie crew
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