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Everything is prog?

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Lord_Adon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lord_Adon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Everything is prog?
    Posted: May 01 2013 at 17:15
Seriously now, the word 'progressive' is supposed to mean progressive.
I don't know how you guys feel, but after a while, those elements that might have made some bands progressive for their time now are recycled by bands as if it gives them some novelty that doesn't exist. What do you call this music? It's always called 'prog' but it is not really progressive if you get what I mean.

For example, Dream Theater sparked a whole bunch of imitation bands that wanted nothing but to sound exactly like them, it seems... and I would be rude to name-drop.
Can that really count as progressive music?

I find that if the term 'progressive' is wearing me out, I like to go to avant-garde music sub genres, maybe bands that consider themselves both avant-garde and progressive, or experimental. Otherwise, you end up with a bunch of power metal bands that really want to be Symphony X, or Dream Theater, but lack what makes those bands exciting.


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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 17:39
The terms "prog rock" and "prog metal" literally have no connection whatsoever to rock and metal that is actually progressive, but a bunch of dinosaurs would get mad if we stopped calling them that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 18:26
You are such a broken record Colin. Why don't you try and come up with a comment that is progressive and original rather that spouting the same old bullsh*t in every post. Maybe you should start your own prog website. It should be pretty damn easy to maintain given that you would only have to include 4 or 5 bands and you can remove them after you have overlistened to them and no longer consider them progressive anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 18:32
I'm sorry, but this looks like yet another "what is 'prog' " thread. Let's see if the folks here are cool with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 19:11
*sigh*
 
There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.
 
And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify  or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.
 
Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.
 
Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.
 
Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.
 
Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.
 


Edited by Dean - May 01 2013 at 19:14


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 19:14
Originally posted by rushfan4

You are such a broken record Colin. Why don't you try and come up with a comment that is progressive and original rather that spouting the same old bullsh*t in every post. Maybe you should start your own prog website. It should be pretty damn easy to maintain given that you would only have to include 4 or 5 bands and you can remove them after you have overlistened to them and no longer consider them progressive anymore.


Sure, feel free to search through my posts and see what miniscule percentage of them actually has anything to do with your perception of me.  Or, keep spouting the same complaints at anybody with broader perspectives than you.

Besides, Dean just basically made the exact same (correct) assertion that I did and I don't see you lambasting him


Edited by Triceratopsoil - May 01 2013 at 19:17
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 19:17
Now, now, let's be gentle-manly about it.

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Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2013 at 19:19
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 20:10
I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 20:23
What a fascinating discussion.  I don't think I've ever seen this topic broached here before.  Sleepy

Move along.  Nothing to see here.  Wink
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 20:26
^ Nothing to see here but you ... dying inside. (... At least that's what the first emoticon suggests.)

Tongue


Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2013 at 20:26
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 20:52
Originally posted by Progosopher

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.
I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information. Wink

Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2013 at 20:52
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Doctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 21:07
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ Nothing to see here but you ... dying inside. (... At least that's what the first emoticon suggests.)

Tongue


Confused  No wait.  Don't tell me.  This emoticon suggests that my lips have been horribly disfigured in a bizarre gardening accident right?  Wink
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 21:59
Yes.

Everything is prog.

Absolutely every musical thing in existence is prog.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 22:49
Originally posted by The Doctor

  Wink


something in your eye?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 22:53
^ Well, yeah, he is hitting on you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 23:54
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq



Originally posted by Progosopher

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.
I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information. Wink

The issue is, as I see it, that people are asking a question that is already answered. I think that if people actually read what is on that one page they would not feel the need to bring this topic up so often; and when they do bring it up, we can all have a common foundation for the discussion instead of just expressing opinions and disagreeing about them. This site does not have the only definition of the word 'progressive,' but it does have the one that defines how the word is used here. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every other month.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Lord_Adon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 01:25
Well I am new to the forum, and was not aware that people bring this up. Was just looking for some thread points LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 02:35
Originally posted by Progosopher

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq



Originally posted by Progosopher

I think we should all pay close attention to Dean's post and leave it at that. The word 'progressive' has been debated to death and it seems as if 9/10 of all posts on the subject have paid little to no attention to how this site defines the word.
I could only presume that there are some people out there who want to hear the opinion of individual users, not what's written on that one page of the site ... but usually opinion is a dust-in-the-wind kind of information. Wink

The issue is, as I see it, that people are asking a question that is already answered. I think that if people actually read what is on that one page they would not feel the need to bring this topic up so often; and when they do bring it up, we can all have a common foundation for the discussion instead of just expressing opinions and disagreeing about them. This site does not have the only definition of the word 'progressive,' but it does have the one that defines how the word is used here. We don't have to reinvent the wheel every other month.
The way you put it - that's a very good point.
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 03:09
Originally posted by Dean

*sigh*
 
There is Progressive as a noun, which is the name of something and as a general rule the first letter is often capitalised to emphasis that it is the name of something specific rather than the name of something generic (such as cat for example as opposed to Tiddles the cat) - as with all names it is perfectly acceptible to shorten that as a diminutive, hence we get Prog, which is still a noun and is still the name of the same something.
 
And there is progressive as an adjective, this is a 'describing word' that we put with a noun to describe, modify  or other substantive by limiting, qualifying, or specifying characteristics of the noun, as a general rule unless it is used at the start of a sentence (which would be difficult to do in correct grammar) the first letter of the adjective progressive should never be capitalised. Also, progressive as an adjective should not be shortened at all (ever) as it is the -ive suffix that denotes that it is the adjective form of progress, remove the -ive ending and the word looses its descriptive meaning completely.
 
Therefore when you describe a tune as being very Prog, you are saying that it belongs in the genre of music known by the noun Prog or Progressive - you are not saying that it is a piece of music that has progressed.
 
Therefore it is grammatically correct, for example, to describe an artist as a progressive Progressive Rock artist since we are using both the adjective form and the noun form of the word.
 
Therefore it is musicologically correct for a band or artist to belong in a genre of music known as Progressive as a name (as in Progressive Rock, or Progressive Metal) without their music being described as being progressive as an adjective.
 
Armed with this basic knowledge of the usage of Progressive as a noun and progressive as an adjective any further discussion on this subject is rendered pointless as any point, comment or opinion can be systematically categorised as using the word progressive either as a noun or an adjective.
 

I propose to make this the top sticky post and name it "Please read before posting anything about Prog vs progressive"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King Crimson776 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2013 at 03:42
Progressive music actually does have something to do with actual innovation. Fusing rock with the broader composition of classical represents the farthest that rock can be taken, and the greatest amount of possibilities/variations in the style. It's easier to be original playing prog than any other popular music style (to me this is the most intuitively obvious thing in the world, but some have a hard time with it).
"It's music, and I like it" - Miles Davis on Sketches of Spain
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