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2013, the rebirth of Neoprog?

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progbethyname View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 08 2013 at 15:06
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M


Originally posted by lazland

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. All "neo prog" is/was is a name given to a bunch of bands who set up in the early 1980's taking their influences from "classic" prog bands. To describe new or modern bands as such is simply ridiculous.
Except for some exceptions (Magenta Seven for example), I tend to agree
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
Originally posted by lazland

</span>Further, virtually all of those bands who came to prominence at the time no longer make music that sounds anything like it did 30 years ago. Good, neither should it. The best of these bands see progressive rock music not as a box with which to fit in and be constrained, but, rather, as a philosophy, a way of doing things, and, crucially, of doing things differently. To have the freedom to make music that is intelligent and free from record industry manipulation, and pedants pre-conceived bias and perceptions.<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">This is frightening me, I agree again: LOL</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">1.- Pendragon ceased to be Neo Prog a few years ago, they are siome sort of Eclectic with Symphonioc and Hard Rock tendencies.</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">2.- Marillion is no longer Prog at all. (At least IMHO)</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">3.- Millenium just released Ego, which has more in common wityh Pink Floy and Symphonic rather with the classic Neo sound of the 80's</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">4.- Lifesigns, Some sort of Neo/Crossover combo</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;"></span>
<span style="line-height: 1.2;">
Originally posted by lazland

</span><span style="line-height: 1.2;">I would rather not start yet another argument about sub-genres (honestly!), but people really do need to start understanding these matters a bit better.</span>
Third agreement in the day.
I listen bands independently of the genre, but hey, this categorization helps a lot when knowing what are you searching for.
Iván 


I love that ARENA and IQ have kept their roots strong over the years, although ARENA's last release didn't sound like the Arena of old. Somewhat more commercial sounding.
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 15:22
Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by Roland113

Neo-prog to me, simply put, symphonic prog in structure but without being rooted in 1970's technology / lyrical concepts.  The three 'classic' Neo bands, IQ, Marillion and Pendagon have evolved their sound over the years to match technology.  The twelve strings have been replaced by distorted heavily effected sweeping guitars, the Mellotrons and organs have been replaced by modern keyboard technology.  Gone are the sweeping tales of elves and mythical creatures replaced by modern gritty tales of love or urban noir.  You can watch the progression of those three bands as their careers evolved, stylistically the music is somewhat similar (Marillion being the exception) but the sound is totally different and has progressed over the years.  The Neo classic bands have evolved and with it, so has the genre.  Yes, I have no problem what so ever including a brand new band in the Neo genre if it fits what the genre has evolved to.

Yeah, when it was initially labeled, it was a few bands but as those pioneers evolved, so did the definition of the genre.

The neo prog bands always used gritty emotional themes. The lyrics were a lot more meaningfull to me as they dealt with horrid feelings that I was having at the time (early eighties) as I tried to grow into a man. Misplaced Childhood was freighteningly good as were the first couple of IQ albums. I think gradually these bands have lost their emotional edge but have replaced it with more polished , well produced albums. They understand their audience well. The idea of evolution is totally a matter of opinion. I see it as change that is not better but I'm happy to go with it all the same. I would rather Marillion and IQ still existed than not.

Oh, agreed, I was just trying to point out the differences between Symphonic and Neo, you're spot on, IQ never had the 'elves and organs' themes going for them.  Also, I agree with you in that they have a less emotional sound and a more polished sound.  I attribute that to technological advancements in music instrumentation and recording.  

In my mind, there is a different mindset between Neo and Symph, a Neo band is going to get giddy at the release of the latest keyboard technology and run out, get it and push it to the edge.  A Symph band is going to be giddy about recording their latest album entirely using tube amplifiers on analog recording equipment.  It's more about the actual sound.  The Neo sound continues to evolve as technology evolves.  

Evolution is just the process of change, not necessarily an improvement over the previous iteration, that's a matter of personal opinion, I'm just saying that the sound evolves as technology evolves.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 15:25
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Roland113

Neo-prog to me, simply put, symphonic prog in structure but without being rooted in 1970's technology / lyrical concepts.  The three 'classic' Neo bands, IQ, Marillion and Pendagon have evolved their sound over the years to match technology.  The twelve strings have been replaced by distorted heavily effected sweeping guitars, the Mellotrons and organs have been replaced by modern keyboard technology.  Gone are the sweeping tales of elves and mythical creatures replaced by modern gritty tales of love or urban noir.  You can watch the progression of those three bands as their careers evolved, stylistically the music is somewhat similar (Marillion being the exception) but the sound is totally different and has progressed over the years.  The Neo classic bands have evolved and with it, so has the genre.  Yes, I have no problem what so ever including a brand new band in the Neo genre if it fits what the genre has evolved to.
Yeah, when it was initially labeled, it was a few bands but as those pioneers evolved, so did the definition of the genre.


My man. You forgot ARENA. They are among the major 3 where by I would put them ahead of PENDRAGON in a heart beat. Good point though. Interesting.

I love Arena, more than all three of the bands that I referenced, I didn't use them in my example was because their first album wasn't released until 1995, a decade after the other three.  Contagion is frequently found in my top five CD's list.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 15:28
Can we say that IQ are the kings of Neo prog? Too bold? I think they've been so consistant since 1993 by keeping their sound in check with the Neo genre itself and expanding it beautifully. FREQUENCY was brilliant! Modern Neo at its best!! Lol
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2013 at 16:40
Originally posted by progbethyname

Can we say that IQ are the kings of Neo prog? Too bold? I think they've been so consistant since 1993 by keeping their sound in check with the Neo genre itself and expanding it beautifully. FREQUENCY was brilliant! Modern Neo at its best!! Lol
I think that they deserve that statement, a long history of releasing excellent Neo indeed. If I should explain what Neo is to somebody, I guess that nothing better than playing IQ to him.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 01:18
Originally posted by Roland113

Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by Roland113

Neo-prog to me, simply put, symphonic prog in structure but without being rooted in 1970's technology / lyrical concepts.  The three 'classic' Neo bands, IQ, Marillion and Pendagon have evolved their sound over the years to match technology.  The twelve strings have been replaced by distorted heavily effected sweeping guitars, the Mellotrons and organs have been replaced by modern keyboard technology.  Gone are the sweeping tales of elves and mythical creatures replaced by modern gritty tales of love or urban noir.  You can watch the progression of those three bands as their careers evolved, stylistically the music is somewhat similar (Marillion being the exception) but the sound is totally different and has progressed over the years.  The Neo classic bands have evolved and with it, so has the genre.  Yes, I have no problem what so ever including a brand new band in the Neo genre if it fits what the genre has evolved to.

Yeah, when it was initially labeled, it was a few bands but as those pioneers evolved, so did the definition of the genre.

The neo prog bands always used gritty emotional themes. The lyrics were a lot more meaningfull to me as they dealt with horrid feelings that I was having at the time (early eighties) as I tried to grow into a man. Misplaced Childhood was freighteningly good as were the first couple of IQ albums. I think gradually these bands have lost their emotional edge but have replaced it with more polished , well produced albums. They understand their audience well. The idea of evolution is totally a matter of opinion. I see it as change that is not better but I'm happy to go with it all the same. I would rather Marillion and IQ still existed than not.

Oh, agreed, I was just trying to point out the differences between Symphonic and Neo, you're spot on, IQ never had the 'elves and organs' themes going for them.  Also, I agree with you in that they have a less emotional sound and a more polished sound.  I attribute that to technological advancements in music instrumentation and recording.  

In my mind, there is a different mindset between Neo and Symph, a Neo band is going to get giddy at the release of the latest keyboard technology and run out, get it and push it to the edge.  A Symph band is going to be giddy about recording their latest album entirely using tube amplifiers on analog recording equipment.  It's more about the actual sound.  The Neo sound continues to evolve as technology evolves.  

Evolution is just the process of change, not necessarily an improvement over the previous iteration, that's a matter of personal opinion, I'm just saying that the sound evolves as technology evolves.

Yep good point about technology although I think symph prog is now less 'techy' than it used to be. Glass Hammer are my favourite modern symph prog band and Fred Schendel's keyboard sound is the same now as it was 10 years ago to my ears. The band has evolved around him and Steve Babb with various line up changes. However I do look for evolution in musical composition and tend to ignore the tech side.Bands that rely only on technology can be dull dull dullSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 07:42
Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by Roland113

Originally posted by richardh

Originally posted by Roland113

Neo-prog to me, simply put, symphonic prog in structure but without being rooted in 1970's technology / lyrical concepts.  The three 'classic' Neo bands, IQ, Marillion and Pendagon have evolved their sound over the years to match technology.  The twelve strings have been replaced by distorted heavily effected sweeping guitars, the Mellotrons and organs have been replaced by modern keyboard technology.  Gone are the sweeping tales of elves and mythical creatures replaced by modern gritty tales of love or urban noir.  You can watch the progression of those three bands as their careers evolved, stylistically the music is somewhat similar (Marillion being the exception) but the sound is totally different and has progressed over the years.  The Neo classic bands have evolved and with it, so has the genre.  Yes, I have no problem what so ever including a brand new band in the Neo genre if it fits what the genre has evolved to.

Yeah, when it was initially labeled, it was a few bands but as those pioneers evolved, so did the definition of the genre.

The neo prog bands always used gritty emotional themes. The lyrics were a lot more meaningfull to me as they dealt with horrid feelings that I was having at the time (early eighties) as I tried to grow into a man. Misplaced Childhood was freighteningly good as were the first couple of IQ albums. I think gradually these bands have lost their emotional edge but have replaced it with more polished , well produced albums. They understand their audience well. The idea of evolution is totally a matter of opinion. I see it as change that is not better but I'm happy to go with it all the same. I would rather Marillion and IQ still existed than not.

Oh, agreed, I was just trying to point out the differences between Symphonic and Neo, you're spot on, IQ never had the 'elves and organs' themes going for them.  Also, I agree with you in that they have a less emotional sound and a more polished sound.  I attribute that to technological advancements in music instrumentation and recording.  

In my mind, there is a different mindset between Neo and Symph, a Neo band is going to get giddy at the release of the latest keyboard technology and run out, get it and push it to the edge.  A Symph band is going to be giddy about recording their latest album entirely using tube amplifiers on analog recording equipment.  It's more about the actual sound.  The Neo sound continues to evolve as technology evolves.  

Evolution is just the process of change, not necessarily an improvement over the previous iteration, that's a matter of personal opinion, I'm just saying that the sound evolves as technology evolves.

Yep good point about technology although I think symph prog is now less 'techy' than it used to be. Glass Hammer are my favourite modern symph prog band and Fred Schendel's keyboard sound is the same now as it was 10 years ago to my ears. The band has evolved around him and Steve Babb with various line up changes. However I do look for evolution in musical composition and tend to ignore the tech side.Bands that rely only on technology can be dull dull dullSmile

Thanks, and yeah, your Glass Hammer comment fits exactly into what I'm saying.  In my mind, that is exactly why Glass Hammer is Symphonic and not Neo.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 07:44
Originally posted by Gerinski

Originally posted by progbethyname

Can we say that IQ are the kings of Neo prog? Too bold? I think they've been so consistant since 1993 by keeping their sound in check with the Neo genre itself and expanding it beautifully. FREQUENCY was brilliant! Modern Neo at its best!! Lol
I think that they deserve that statement, a long history of releasing excellent Neo indeed. If I should explain what Neo is to somebody, I guess that nothing better than playing IQ to him.

Concurred.  I have long considered IQ the prototypical Neo-Prog band rather than Marillion.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 10:56
I agree with Lazland about Marillion!! They sound like Marillion; they have their own sound and don't fit the criteria that most people use to define prog!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 10:57
I would agree that IQ is probably the finest example of neo-prog left. Their last 3-4 albums have been classic neo IMO.
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 10:59
Furthermore, if Gaza is well-crafted pop then please let's have more pop that sounds like that!!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote FLAC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 15:10
LOL Do you know he/she listens to Janis Joplin interesting right.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2013 at 21:39
Guess some of us are in agreement with IQ being at the top of the Totem poll of Neo Prog. I've been looking at the history and I think that they are the most consistant with the genre itself and their music seems to be unmatched. Marillion's Fish years were excellent as well, but that lasted only 4 albums and I think the fab 4 (misplaced Childhood, Script, fugazi, clutching at straws) don't match up against IQ's finest 4, which in my opinion are THE WAKE, Subterranea, The Seventh House and Ever.) I'm just looking at it from a consistency stand point. IQ really have 7 studio gem albums. That's more than any other Neo band I can think of. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2013 at 08:22
Originally posted by progbethyname

Guess some of us are in agreement with IQ being at the top of the Totem poll of Neo Prog. I've been looking at the history and I think that they are the most consistant with the genre itself and their music seems to be unmatched. Marillion's Fish years were excellent as well, but that lasted only 4 albums and I think the fab 4 (misplaced Childhood, Script, fugazi, clutching at straws) don't match up against IQ's finest 4, which in my opinion are THE WAKE, Subterranea, The Seventh House and Ever.) I'm just looking at it from a consistency stand point. IQ really have 7 studio gem albums. That's more than any other Neo band I can think of. :)

Yeah, I agree with everything that you've said here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Argonaught Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2013 at 09:46

Behold, the holy Nu New Novel Neo-Prog hath risen, undead indead, therefore praise be to the Lord

Some folks just take their "prog" too religiously - or too scientifically - or both, I'm afraid :)

 



Edited by Argonaught - May 10 2013 at 09:47
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2013 at 10:02
Originally posted by Argonaught

Behold, the holy Nu New Novel Neo-Prog hath risen, undead indead, therefore praise be to the Lord

Some folks just take their "prog" too religiously - or too scientifically - or both, I'm afraid :)

 


We really need a 'eyeroll' emoticon here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2013 at 02:12
Originally posted by progbethyname

Guess some of us are in agreement with IQ being at the top of the Totem poll of Neo Prog. I've been looking at the history and I think that they are the most consistant with the genre itself and their music seems to be unmatched. Marillion's Fish years were excellent as well, but that lasted only 4 albums and I think the fab 4 (misplaced Childhood, Script, fugazi, clutching at straws) don't match up against IQ's finest 4, which in my opinion are THE WAKE, Subterranea, The Seventh House and Ever.) I'm just looking at it from a consistency stand point. IQ really have 7 studio gem albums. That's more than any other Neo band I can think of. :)

As much as I am an IQ fan I wouldn't play down Marillion or their post Fish output. I love Seasons End and have been a fan of Hogarth for a long time. His recent album with Richard Barbieri is very beautifull imo.
I also believe Seasons End was vital to the evolution of neo prog as a genre. That was released in 1989 a full 3 years before IQ's Ever and I'm sure IQ gained some ideas from what Marillion were doing. In fact I would go as far to say that Marillion have pushed neo further forward than IQ although purely on listening and taste I tend to gravitate more towards IQ.


Edited by richardh - May 11 2013 at 02:12
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2013 at 07:51
I only really discovered neo-prog last year, and now I'm eating up all this new material!  Some bands I really don't like, but some bands, like Introitus, Riversea, Bader Nana, and Subsignal, are topping my lists.  Introitus is easily one of my top 5 favorite bands!  I'm also eager to discover the original bands from the '80s.  It does seem like a rebirth is happening, and I believe a new golden age of prog may be approaching as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote progbethyname Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2013 at 14:35
Originally posted by richardh



Originally posted by progbethyname

Guess some of us are in agreement with IQ being at the top of the Totem poll of Neo Prog. I've been looking at the history and I think that they are the most consistant with the genre itself and their music seems to be unmatched. Marillion's Fish years were excellent as well, but that lasted only 4 albums and I think the fab 4 (misplaced Childhood, Script, fugazi, clutching at straws) don't match up against IQ's finest 4, which in my opinion are THE WAKE, Subterranea, The Seventh House and Ever.) I'm just looking at it from a consistency stand point. IQ really have 7 studio gem albums. That's more than any other Neo band I can think of. :)

As much as I am an IQ fan I wouldn't play down Marillion or their post Fish output. I love Seasons End and have been a fan of Hogarth for a long time. His recent album with Richard Barbieri is very beautifull imo.
I also believe Seasons End was vital to the evolution of neo prog as a genre. That was released in 1989 a full 3 years before IQ's Ever and I'm sure IQ gained some ideas from what Marillion were doing. In fact I would go as far to say that Marillion have pushed neo further forward than IQ although purely on listening and taste I tend to gravitate more towards IQ.



Interesting, but would you say that Marillion are still modernized symPhonic prog today? I don't think so. Releases like Marbels, Brave and their most recent Sounds that can't made don't sound like Neo prog to me. Marillion sound like a really good progressive rock band to me, which is why IQ get the node for best Neo prog band be ause they have really remained true to the genre itself in their entire 30 year career....well 28 to be exact. :)
Lots to love about the Prog Metal powerhouse band, 'Threshold.'
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Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2013 at 01:08
Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by richardh



Originally posted by progbethyname

Guess some of us are in agreement with IQ being at the top of the Totem poll of Neo Prog. I've been looking at the history and I think that they are the most consistant with the genre itself and their music seems to be unmatched. Marillion's Fish years were excellent as well, but that lasted only 4 albums and I think the fab 4 (misplaced Childhood, Script, fugazi, clutching at straws) don't match up against IQ's finest 4, which in my opinion are THE WAKE, Subterranea, The Seventh House and Ever.) I'm just looking at it from a consistency stand point. IQ really have 7 studio gem albums. That's more than any other Neo band I can think of. :)

As much as I am an IQ fan I wouldn't play down Marillion or their post Fish output. I love Seasons End and have been a fan of Hogarth for a long time. His recent album with Richard Barbieri is very beautifull imo.
I also believe Seasons End was vital to the evolution of neo prog as a genre. That was released in 1989 a full 3 years before IQ's Ever and I'm sure IQ gained some ideas from what Marillion were doing. In fact I would go as far to say that Marillion have pushed neo further forward than IQ although purely on listening and taste I tend to gravitate more towards IQ.



Interesting, but would you say that Marillion are still modernized symPhonic prog today? I don't think so. Releases like Marbels, Brave and their most recent Sounds that can't made don't sound like Neo prog to me. Marillion sound like a really good progressive rock band to me, which is why IQ get the node for best Neo prog band be ause they have really remained true to the genre itself in their entire 30 year career....well 28 to be exact. :)

I don't believe the genre is just an extension of Symph prog. It incorporated elements of pop,psyche and even punk as well when it rose from the ashes of seventies based prog. Atmosphere and emotion were vital elements and Marillion have carried on that 'tradition' extremely well. IQ are.. well just IQ. They do being IQ better than anyone elseWink
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