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Is classic prog plagued by bad ending tracks?

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RedNightmareKing View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedNightmareKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is classic prog plagued by bad ending tracks?
    Posted: June 10 2013 at 18:32
There are certain records from the classic era that exhibit poor closing tracks, be it full or certain parts. Examples I came up with were as follows:

Selling England by the Pound: "Aisle of Plenty". I feel Cinema Show would have ended the album much more properly, and that this was a sort of filler.

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "It.". This track doesn't really wrap the album up for me, coming in at around 3~ minutes if I recall correctly.

666: "Break". After a twisting and turning epic (All the Seats Were Occupied), we get this. A sappy pop tune, which kind of kills the flow.

In The Court of the Crimson King: "The Court of the Crimson King". The cold ending to this track after the free-jazz freakout felt a little forced. The album could've worked better with the 7-minute single version of this track instead of the 9 minute version.

Fragile: "Heart of the Sunrise". I really dislike the reprise of We Have Heaven. The cold ending to Heart of the Sunrise left me on the edge the first time I heard it, and kind of makes the listener beg for more, adding suspense to the next album Close to the Edge. But the reprise... not exactly the ending for such a great album otherwise.

So, is it just me, or do some prog albums suffer from a mediocre last track? Like I stated before, certain parts of tracks or just full ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 18:42
IMO, Aisle of Plenty is by no means weak!! It ties in perfectly as a reprise to Dancing With the Moonlit Knight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KingCrInuYasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 18:49
I thought the cold ending to "The Court Of The Crimson King" works quite well.

Thematically, I can understand "Break"; lyrically, it has nothing to do with the rest of 666.

Possible candidates:

"Lucky Man", from ELP's debut. I think it would have been better to place it between "Take A Pebble" and "Knife Edge".

"Siberiam Khatru" from Yes' Close To The Edge. It sounds more like an album opener than a closer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedNightmareKing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 18:53
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

I thought the cold ending to "The Court Of The Crimson King" works quite well.

Thematically, I can understand "Break"; lyrically, it has nothing to do with the rest of 666.

Possible candidates:

"Lucky Man", from ELP's debut. I think it would have been better to place it between "Take A Pebble" and "Knife Edge".

"Siberiam Khatru" from Yes' Close To The Edge. It sounds more like an album opener than a closer.


The thing with Lucky Man is that is was kind of thrown in there, but I agree with you on that.

As for Siberian Khatru, I say it could've switched places with And You And I easily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 19:26
I think the classic period is just "overrated" (for lack of a better word atm), you're just realizing that every prog album in the 70's wasn't perfect :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 19:45
I don't think it was plagued by bad closers more than any other era, although there definitely were some subpar ones. I think it's interesting that, whereas conventional wisdom would say that you should close with one of your strongest tracks, one that wraps up the album well, Rush tended to close their albums with tracks that weren't as strong but pointed to the next album instead of wrapping up the album they were on.  Cygnus X-1, for example, sets the stage for Hemispheres, and is in my opinion one of their weaker tracks (still good, though).  Similarly, Vital Signs doesn't seem like the greatest way to end Moving Pictures until you consider that it leads into "Signals" perfectly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Bassist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 19:52
i totally disagree on aisle of plenty as well, perfect ending to a perfect album
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m2thek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 21:13
Aisle of Plenty is the only way to close SEBTP
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote m2thek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 21:17
In general I think album structure is a weak point of prog, and something that Genesis did better than most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eria Tarka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2013 at 21:31
It was once my favorite son on The Lamb, and I still really love it alot. 

My perfect definition of "bad album closer" would be Mr Bungle's "Mary Go Bye Bye/Nothing". The "song" portion of this track is great, but the last  minutes or so is just an awful way to end the album. LOL

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irrelevant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 01:16
Originally posted by bytor2112 bytor2112 wrote:

It was once my favorite son on The Lamb, and I still really love it alot. 

My perfect definition of "bad album closer" would be Mr Bungle's "Mary Go Bye Bye/Nothing". The "song" portion of this track is great, but the last  minutes or so is just an awful way to end the album. LOL

 

It's not a great ending, but it's typical Mr. Bungle. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 02:32
I disagree about any of the classic albums endings mentioned here.
Aisle Of Plenty fits in quite well as an ending. A lot of SEBTP has moments where the music fades away, like in the ending of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight. Wanorak mentioned it as a reprise: well, even better.
Siberian Khatru is a nice closer.
So is the ending of ITCOTCK.
Lucky Man is a wonderful ending, with Emerson's portamento playing. Besides, I like albums with more complex pieces which end at a harmonic way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 06:17
Originally posted by RedNightmareKing RedNightmareKing wrote:

There are certain records from the classic era that exhibit poor closing tracks, be it full or certain parts. Examples I came up with were as follows:

Selling England by the Pound: "Aisle of Plenty". I feel Cinema Show would have ended the album much more properly, and that this was a sort of filler.

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway: "It.". This track doesn't really wrap the album up for me, coming in at around 3~ minutes if I recall correctly.

666: "Break". After a twisting and turning epic (All the Seats Were Occupied), we get this. A sappy pop tune, which kind of kills the flow.

In The Court of the Crimson King: "The Court of the Crimson King". The cold ending to this track after the free-jazz freakout felt a little forced. The album could've worked better with the 7-minute single version of this track instead of the 9 minute version.

Fragile: "Heart of the Sunrise". I really dislike the reprise of We Have Heaven. The cold ending to Heart of the Sunrise left me on the edge the first time I heard it, and kind of makes the listener beg for more, adding suspense to the next album Close to the Edge. But the reprise... not exactly the ending for such a great album otherwise.

So, is it just me, or do some prog albums suffer from a mediocre last track? Like I stated before, certain parts of tracks or just full ones.
I agree about "It", it always feels slightly out of place with the rest of the album.
 
"Aisle of Plenty" is a good way to end SEBTP as it links back to the opening track. I suspect some of its impact has been lost since the demise of Fine Fare and Safeway.
 
I also like the way the door opens and leads us back into "We Have Heaven"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 06:26
And let's not forget a great few ending tracks
 
"Awaken"
"To Be Over"
"The Fountain of Salmacis"
"Supper's Ready"
 
I could go on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 06:35
......the list literally goes on

Floyd - Meddle - Echoes
KC - Lizard - Lizard
Caravan - In the Land... - Nine Feet Underground
Van Damme Generator - Pawn Hearts - Plague
PFM - Per Un Amico - Geranio
Rush - A Farewell to Kings - Cygnus X1
Gong - You Never Blow Your Trip Forever
Area - Arbeit Macht Frei - L'Abbattimento Dello Zeppelin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 06:58
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Van Damme Generator - Pawn Hearts - Plague

Ha! Dave, if they were called that, I wonder if I would have warmed to them more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 07:07
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Van Damme Generator - Pawn Hearts - Plague

Ha! Dave, if they were called that, I wonder if I would have warmed to them more!
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Michael Dudikoff?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mormegil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 07:10
I don't necessarily agree with this idea of "bad ending tracks" simply because that's the heart of prog (IMHO).
I wouldn't call any of these tracks "bad", just different, and moving in different directions. I thought that was the whole idea of prog - to take the music to a different plane, even if it does break up the "feel" of an album.
And to mirror others in this forum, Aisle of Plenty is just phenomenal. (Yes, it's just my opinion, but, then again, they're my ears.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 07:10
The DUDE!!! One of my boyhood idols!!

How about his buddy in those flicks, Steve James, what charisma he had! His moustache alone could take on an army!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2013 at 07:18
LOLAmerican Ninja.....Oh my, talk about memories.

I watched one of those not too long ago, and it's insane just how bad it was! I mean, I used to lab it up like a small dog, but now.........erm.....you know?LOL 
The 80s were confusing.

Alright let's get back to the thread here, before we start hijacking it with lame white boy Bruce Lee wannabees from the age of head bans and Cyndi Lauper.
How about this for a monster of a closer?
 
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