Progarchives.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum SearchSearch  Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 789
Author
Message
The Pessimist View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3797
Post Options Post Options   Quote The Pessimist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy
    Posted: October 12 2013 at 14:31
Now it sounds like a title of a book by Steven Wilson.
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
Back to Top
uduwudu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: July 17 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 963
Post Options Post Options   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2013 at 03:50
Progressive rock and progressive music are two different same things. Confused One is the original fusion of older classical ideas with a newer music. Occasionally there are changes and new bands that turn up, but after a while I get the idea that "prog" most certainly means symphonic rock mainly. Remove that and where are we all?

As for SW, when I heard P Tree's Sky Moves Sideways a long time ago I thought here's a guy who wants to be Pink Floyd so much he's recorded one of their best albums. After that album P Tree became one of the greats right up to but not including The Incident. The Raven is okay, fusion oriented but I am reminded of U2's Rattle and Um (sic) where they "discovered" Americana, blues etc and thought they were so cool at this "new" thing. I think alot of this perception of new / old is that many people (but probably not on this site) do not consider music from before they were adolescents. Thus anything recorded / released before they were"alive" is "irrelevant". Unless they are heritage oriented then music may be respected.

But there it is - time. Either dismissed as past history (tautology noted). Or a proud history. Still the same thing. Plus ca change n'est pas?

However I can't help but also note that people, as the sum of their conflicts and not resolutions are a mass of contradictions (just look at the indecision, discussion and debate on the meaning of prog.) - and SW is no different. Since making his / their identity he got in touch with the 60s 70s masters and re-did some of their records.

Progressive rock means moving rock on but also remaining the same. Contradictions in music that indicate the indelible humanity involved in writing, recording, performing, hearing, absorbing, loving, hating, arguing, occasionally agreeing and well, being passionately indifferent.

Have I gone off topic? Again? Shocked



Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 27 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1483
Post Options Post Options   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2013 at 08:42

this is so funny, i never knew Wilson is such a prog geek LOL
Back to Top
Hnrz View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2012
Location: Somerset
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 51
Post Options Post Options   Quote Hnrz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2014 at 05:40
I appreciate prog that looks backwards, it just depends how well you do it. True innovation is rare. 
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2014 at 15:02
Originally posted by Hnrz

I appreciate prog that looks backwards, it just depends how well you do it. True innovation is rare. 

Yeah I think I subscribe to that although Wilson manages to add his own thing which is important.
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: usa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 892
Post Options Post Options   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2014 at 16:17
To Answer your question, yes Steven Wilson has reached his time. I find his trips down progressive memory lane tedious and his album TRTRTS completely overrated and lack luster. Perhaps it's in his execution of the material as to why it comes off so feeling so sterile. The Flaming Lips put out an album titled The Terror that is strangely similar to early Popol Vuh in it's soundscapes and it's also creepy as hell so it works for me demonstrating that going backwards is not always counter productive to making enjoyable Prog music. And let's face it, what new sounds are going to come about now? Better grab something you like while you can and enjoy it.

Edited by SteveG - July 01 2014 at 17:00
Back to Top
Altairius View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February 14 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
Post Options Post Options   Quote Altairius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 04:44
Originally posted by Horizons

There's a difference from having influences from the past and sounding pastoral. Stevens recognizes this line.


Old comment, but do you really think The Raven is more original than say, TFK? That's actually blatantly wrong. TFK has a much more unique sound, with the Swedish melodies and a much more integrated fusion of their influences. The Raven is very much "first a Yes bit, now here's the Crimson part, and over here in this song is some Genesis". It's overall more original than a lot of things and I like the album, but the idea that this album is a real exemption from "retro prog" while TFK aren't is inane. I guess it's his voice and the fact that his music is on the dreary side that makes it seem more 'modern'.
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161
Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2014 at 06:34
^Have you heard anything before 'The Raven'? Yeah, 'The Raven' was clearly a nod for 70's music (although there is a lot of post-rock and indie pop here and there), but can you find any Yes or Genesis-like music on Insurgentes or Deadwing or Storm Corrosion?

Edited by ole-the-first - July 02 2014 at 06:36
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2014 at 01:16
I don't think 'Genesis,Yes or Crimson' when I listen to The Raven, I just hear a bloody good album. TFK are largely a pastiche of prog although a pleasant enough band . That said Desolation Rose marks a point where the penny has finally dropped for Roine and not before time. Long complex passages that go nowhere does not prog make. Wilson knows what works and doesn't pummel you over the head again and again with a notion of prog.
Back to Top
Altairius View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February 14 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
Post Options Post Options   Quote Altairius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2014 at 04:25
I'm talking about The Raven, not Wilson in general.

I hear Yes, Crimson and Genesis and I hear a good album. But like I said, it's bizarre to call TFK a pastiche and give Wilson a pass when Wilson in this album is far more closely imitating. There are original parts, but they're separate from the 'homage' parts. TFK has the originality and unoriginality blended into one entity. They created an unmistakeable sound though, whereas The Raven is unmistakeably Wilson with a few mistakable sections. I like Porcupine Tree about as much as TFK but Wilson never created his own trademark symphonic sound, so it's only natural that he fall back on the originals too much when he gets too close to the pure thing.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2014 at 16:25
Originally posted by Altairius

I'm talking about The Raven, not Wilson in general.

I hear Yes, Crimson and Genesis and I hear a good album. But like I said, it's bizarre to call TFK a pastiche and give Wilson a pass when Wilson in this album is far more closely imitating. There are original parts, but they're separate from the 'homage' parts. TFK has the originality and unoriginality blended into one entity. They created an unmistakeable sound though, whereas The Raven is unmistakeably Wilson with a few mistakable sections. I like Porcupine Tree about as much as TFK but Wilson never created his own trademark symphonic sound, so it's only natural that he fall back on the originals too much when he gets too close to the pure thing.

I don't hear imitation. On the downside the album is a bit cold but then I think that is purely intentional. Yes and Genesis are not coming through to me at all. King Crimson is going to be the closest it gets not least because he is using the exact same Mellotron that Fripp used but even then the style is not close enough to be an imitation imo.
Back to Top
Altairius View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: February 14 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
Post Options Post Options   Quote Altairius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2014 at 04:12
Yes is in the first section of Luminol, Genesis in The Watchmaker. Like I said, the heavily influenced sections are kind of separate and then it goes into some pretty original sections too. It's pretty odd, come to think of it.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2014 at 01:39
Originally posted by Altairius

Yes is in the first section of Luminol, 

Confused

which Yes track in particular?
Back to Top
Dayvenkirq View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Reno, NV, USA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 9515
Post Options Post Options   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2014 at 01:43
^ It doesn't have to be a particular Yes track. It sure does sound like it has a Squire-esque bass riff in it (think Fragile) ... with some music that reminds me of Remedy Lane. In fact, much of that track reminds me of PoS.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - July 05 2014 at 01:45
"People tell you life is short. ... No, it's not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions." - Chris Rock
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10860
Post Options Post Options   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2014 at 01:52
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ It doesn't have to be a particular Yes track. It sure does sound like it has a Squire-esque bass riff in it (think Fragile) ... with some music that reminds me of Remedy Lane. In fact, much of that track reminds me of PoS.

Rickenbacker = YesWink

Just listening to it now.Parts of the album remind me a little of Crimson especially when you get the jazz freak out bits but not getting any string hints of Yes or Genesis. It is something of a rich dish of gourmet delights for a prog fan that perhaps its just too much for some.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 789

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.69
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.250 seconds.