Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
Author
Message
Aussie-Byrd-Brother View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Rock Progressivo Italiano Team

Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7435
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:23
If I recall, Roger, it wasn't so much that Steven said something nasty about Dream Theater, more that `I don't like their type of music, even though they're damn good at it' or something along those lines? I'm sure some rabid Dream Threater on here could clarify the exact comment?!

Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - June 23 2013 at 08:23
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:28
Wilson worked with Portnoy in 2003 (OSI)
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
HolyMoly View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 23341
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:35
I sure hope I'm never scrutinized as closely as Wilson and held to such a high standard of conduct.  It's kind of eerie how we expect public figures to act.  If it were the President or something, then yeah, but this is just a semi-famous cult musician.   But the public loves finding faults in its heroes, no matter how small, and so this story is perpetuated for 7+ years.  And with internet, the sheer volume of posts and blurbs about it make it exponentially more likely with each passing year that it will continue to show up on searches for "Steven Wilson", even though that hatchet was presumably buried years before.
My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5701
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:36
I like Wilson's last couple solo albums. The Raven is superb. But I am really not interested in what he has to say, nor am I inclined to listen to the opinions of any entertainer. If I may paraphrase Zappa, "Just shut-up and play your guitar".
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 7487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:39
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I sure hope I'm never scrutinized as closely as Wilson and held to such a high standard of conduct.  It's kind of eerie how we expect public figures to act.  If it were the President or something, then yeah, but this is just a semi-famous cult musician.   But the public loves finding faults in its heroes, no matter how small, and so this story is perpetuated for 7+ years.  And with internet, the sheer volume of posts and blurbs about it make it exponentially more likely with each passing year that it will continue to show up on searches for "Steven Wilson", even though that hatchet was presumably buried years before.

I am sorry but I really don't think showing a bit of respect for a colleague in the same field as yours - unless you have good reason to believe he is doing something illegal/unethical etc - is such a big deal.  If Wilson does want to still go ahead and publicly pull down another musician, sure, but the public is going to talk about whatever becomes, well, public.  
Back to Top
Knobby View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2013
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 490
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:48
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I    I believe he also said something nasty about Dream Theater 
Knobs dont know nuffink about this new Wilson apparent marvel, but on the strength of the above, Knobs will look into his music.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:51
Mutual respect between musicians is not the same as commenting on the work they produce and how they produce it. Wilson has remastered two ELP albums but has said he won't do any more because "I canít honestly say I love them"... which many interpreted as Wilson saying that he hates ELP. If musicians are not permitted to comment on the work of other musicians we are reducing the world to a population of sycophants.
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Knobby View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 31 2013
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 490
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:54
Be this the Wilson youse all going on about?:
 
"Oh out in Stonehenge, I lived alone/ Arrived in Gamehendge, I chafed a bone."
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 7487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:55
Ah, but he went well beyond that w.r.t TFK.  He basically blamed them for "reinforcing every prejudice people have about prog".   There is an element of personal spite in that comment which Stolt didn't take very well at all.  Wilson wants people to think of prog as a specific set of bands including PT (and by implication not TFK).   That's way out of line.   It is perfectly ok to say he doesn't like TFK or even to use less charitable words like "boring".   But he has not restricted himself to that brief at all; the comments read like he has some personal agenda against TFK.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 08:59
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

Be this the Wilson youse all going on about?:
 
"Oh out in Stonehenge, I lived alone/ Arrived in Gamehendge, I chafed a bone."
Nope. That song pre-dates SWilson's rise to prominence by several years so it is unlikely to even be a glancing reference.
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37331
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 09:25
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Ah, but he went well beyond that w.r.t TFK.  He basically blamed them for "reinforcing every prejudice people have about prog".   There is an element of personal spite in that comment which Stolt didn't take very well at all.  Wilson wants people to think of prog as a specific set of bands including PT (and by implication not TFK).   That's way out of line.   It is perfectly ok to say he doesn't like TFK or even to use less charitable words like "boring".   But he has not restricted himself to that brief at all; the comments read like he has some personal agenda against TFK.
Not really, but if you want to propagate that idea then that's what the internet is good at. Wilson was asked to comment on what bands like Radiohead, TMV, TFK and Transatlantic need to do for Progressive music to survive and he gave an answer from his perspective, (which included the direction PT were moving into at the time with previous Absentia and the soon to be released Deadwing, both of which marked change in direction from their earlier albums), about the longevity and continuing survival (future or death) of a genre of music that that has two very distinct and (until now perhaps) incompatible sides (innovation and nostalgia).
 
There was some disengenuous things in Stolts response too, (not withstanding his assertion that 'neither Flowerkings or Transatlantic have ever been dealing with "sci-fi lyrics"' ... which leaves me wondering what the hell Back In The World of Adventures, Retropolis, Stardust We Are and Unfold The Future were all about and why TFK amd SMPTe have sci-fi album cover art work), that it was a contrived publicity move to furher Wilson's career.
"You know what uranium is, right?
Itís this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 7487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 09:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Ah, but he went well beyond that w.r.t TFK.  He basically blamed them for "reinforcing every prejudice people have about prog".   There is an element of personal spite in that comment which Stolt didn't take very well at all.  Wilson wants people to think of prog as a specific set of bands including PT (and by implication not TFK).   That's way out of line.   It is perfectly ok to say he doesn't like TFK or even to use less charitable words like "boring".   But he has not restricted himself to that brief at all; the comments read like he has some personal agenda against TFK.
Not really, but if you want to propagate that idea then that's what the internet is good at. Wilson was asked to comment on what bands like Radiohead, TMV, TFK and Transatlantic need to do for Progressive music to survive and he gave an answer from his perspective, (which included the direction PT were moving into at the time with previous Absentia and the soon to be released Deadwing, both of which marked change in direction from their earlier albums), about the longevity and continuing survival (future or death) of a genre of music that that has two very distinct and (until now perhaps) incompatible sides (innovation and nostalgia).
 
There was some disengenuous things in Stolts response too, (not withstanding his assertion that 'neither Flowerkings or Transatlantic have ever been dealing with "sci-fi lyrics"' ... which leaves me wondering what the hell Back In The World of Adventures, Retropolis, Stardust We Are and Unfold The Future were all about and why TFK amd SMPTe have sci-fi album cover art work), that it was a contrived publicity move to furher Wilson's career.

I am sure it is possible to pontificate on those things with more sophistication.  The kind that Wilson desires from his supposedly attention deficit Ipod junkie listeners but which is rather missing in his comment.  He did not stop at deciding whether TFK falls on the nostalgia side of the balance (and PT on the innovation side)...he basically said bands like TFK hurt the business for others (like PT).  You don't have to read too much into his words to infer that because short of using those exact words, it's what he said.  It's pretty silly to complain that some other bands give the label that your music is slotted under a bad name and (which seems to be SW's favourite theme) things could have been so much better if only there were no TFK.
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 10:46
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Wilson worked with Portnoy in 2003 (OSI)

Moreover, he participated on 'Systematic Chaos'. And Jordan Rudess played keyboards on his solo albums.
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 10:54
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Mutual respect between musicians is not the same as commenting on the work they produce and how they produce it. Wilson has remastered two ELP albums but has said he won't do any more because "I canít honestly say I love them"... which many interpreted as Wilson saying that he hates ELP. If musicians are not permitted to comment on the work of other musicians we are reducing the world to a population of sycophants.

Actually Wilson's ELP remasters were a part of Universal's deluxe reissues series. Many of ELP albums were re-released before Wilson came to remaster them, so what's left to reissue in future is mostly poor late stuff like 'Love Beach', so there is no wonder why Wilson dislikes it.
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 7431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 10:57
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...
I am sure it is possible to pontificate on those things with more sophistication.  ...
...
 
But we have to get past the idea of likes and dislikes and write a good paper for PA, the new professor!  The problem is, that only a handful of posts in this thread, for example, would make the grade and be useful in a paper to get you a good grade ... everything is opinion and comment, and none of it is centered on the strength of the quotes and ideas presented by Steven himself.
 
We are all a bunch of frustrated nerds and idiots. We want HEROES, and then we decide that we don't like them, because they do not have the proper ending for their 39th song on the 17th album! And then we set about playing judge and jury to kill them, and let people know that we don't like them ... anymore!
 
Something is wrong with this process ... times change ... and people's opinions change ... but we took away Steven's change during that time, too!
 
I do not think that Steven is any bigger a hippocrite than ALL OF US HERE, that have no idea, no guts, and ability to create music ... but we do stand up to define it and tell him that he is wrong, just like that turkey did to Gary Green, explainging to him about progressive music ... and Gary says ... we just played. Nothing was written ...
 
We don't get it, do we?
 
So why, are we holding Steven up to ... some ideal standard, that even he does not believe in?
 
BTW, the thing with ELP, I think ran into issues between Keith and Greg I'm willing to bet ... that simply were not worth the hassle! There is a lot of music out there that could use Steven's touch ... but his ears are too limited and his opinion on things too strong, for him to just do something different. And something that is worth while!


Edited by moshkito - June 23 2013 at 10:58
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the inner art is all about!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
ole-the-first View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 11:00
Just a small advice for those who will remember 7 years old Wilson/Stolt incident again: you guys just behave like 13 years-old HIM haters. And, honestly, have the same brain.


Edited by ole-the-first - July 27 2013 at 18:20
This night wounds time.
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 7487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 11:09
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


I do not think that Steven is any bigger a hippocrite than ALL OF US HERE, that have no idea, no guts, and ability to create music ... but we do stand up to define it and tell him that he is wrong, just like that turkey did to Gary Green, explainging to him about progressive music ... and Gary says ... we just played. Nothing was written ...
 
Actually, by that count alone, he would be wrong...wrong in trying to artificially characterise one set of bands as the death of progressive music, the ones that give it a bad name.    You constantly remind everyone in any thread (irrespective of whether it bears relation to that topic) that people should not have strong opinions on what is and what is not progressive so why do you feel compelled to defend Wilson here.  Let me state it pretty bluntly here:  any member of this forum making a statement with such sweeping generalizations as Wilson in that interview would have been immediately confronted with several people jumping in to correct him and teach him how to write English on the internet.  So why should we be reluctant to apply those same standards to Wilson's opinions?  Are we not guilty somewhere of feeling the need to place him on a pedestal, as if he is somehow above the normal rules that apply to people because he is a renowned musician.  We have to accept that all of Wilson's talents as a musician may not necessarily make all of his opinions entirely positive or respectful.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 7431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 11:53
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

...  We have to accept that all of Wilson's talents as a musician may not necessarily make all of his opinions entirely positive or respectful.
 
And that was pretty much what I said ... you just said it in different set of letters and words!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the inner art is all about!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Polymorphia View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 06 2012
Location: here
Status: Offline
Points: 8029
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polymorphia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 16:55
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I do not think that Steven is any bigger a hippocrite than ALL OF US HERE, that have no idea, no guts, and ability to create music ... but we do stand up to define it and tell him that he is wrong, just like that turkey did to Gary Green, explainging to him about progressive music ... and Gary says ... we just played. Nothing was written ...
 
You assume that none of us are musicians. Tongue
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 10215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 23 2013 at 22:25
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:

Be this the Wilson youse all going on about?:

"Oh out in Stonehenge, I lived alone/ Arrived in Gamehendge, I chafed a bone."



http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=290
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4135

knock yourself out.......
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.01
Copyright ©2001-2014 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.922 seconds.