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Steven Wilson, Prog heritage and legacy

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Tony R View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 13:02
It's impossible not to channel your influences, the trick is not to just be a copy. IMO The Flower Kings do more than pay homage to "classic" prog, which is ok, but not for me.

Wilson is a god to me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silverpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 13:30
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by silverpot silverpot wrote:


Now, what is truly new and innovative today, without being unlistenable?

I don't know about the truly part of it, but Everything Everything though you are probably going to complain about the vocals.  But it isn't as if Wilson is the direct descendant of Ronnie James Dio either.  I don't even know what's new in electronic, there must be tons of fresh and innovative music out there.


I don't think Everything Everything is for me, but thanks for trying. They kind of sounded as if I played something on youtube at the same time spotify was playing. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 20:12
Originally posted by silverpot silverpot wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I've said it before but trying to work out what is truly new and innovative is a completely pointless exercise. Something always begat something which begat something and so on. Like anything you either enjoy it or you don't. 


That's about what I actually meant. I was adressing those who critizise Wilson, thinking he's too retro.

I do listen to all sorts of new music but if I try hard enough I can always find something in it that reminds me of some earlier stuff. Wink

Well, you only have to compare Grace for Drowning (because I haven't heard the full Raven album) with his earlier work with PT, say In Absentia, to see where the criticism could come from.  The latter had a more contemporary flavour even if it necessarily drew elements from older music (and all music has some source material anyway).   GfD is not yet as blatantly 70s SOUNDING as Flower Kings but he's getting there.  It's not that people are calling it retro just because it has some elements from the 70s - the overall sound is slowly drifting towards a 70s-like one.  If it were not for modern recording, some tracks would already sound like they were recorded in the 70s, e.g., Sectarian.  It is very difficult not to mistake it for a lost KC recording unless you are already told that is not the case.  OK, maybe because it sounds like KC rather than Kansas, it sounds more daring, challenging, dissonant, whatever but the source is traced a bit too easily imo.  

It's strange but with PT Wilson's music actually had some sort of distinct identity, enough to be distinguished from Radiohead or U2 or Coldplay.   But his solo work  (again, referring only to Grace...) sounds more like a great sound engineer piecing together his favourite 70s sounds with a sprinkling of contemporary touches here and there at best.   


Edited by rogerthat - July 29 2013 at 20:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Neck Romancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 21:48
Originally posted by IGNEO1991 IGNEO1991 wrote:

(...) has Steven Wilson reached his time - being unable to create ‘new’, fresh material that tries hard to break from existing musical clichés and traditions? 


I sure hope he hasn't, but that's what it seems like. Contrary to progressing, his output since The Incident sure has managed to embrace previous formulae – be it shoegazing (Insurgentes), classic prog (Grace for Drowning, The Raven that Refused to Sing, Time Flies (off The Incident– for Steven is just playing it safe. 

It's obvious that he wants please his fanbase (the kind of people whose taste seem to be dictated by Classic Rock Presents Prog magazine) and he'll surely manage to sell his numerous deluxe editions if he keeps releasing those prog (here, the word prog applies; progressive doesn't) records.

God knows I shouldn't give a damn but hell, I get upset when my favorite artists disappoint me. Not that I'm saying I want him (them) to release what I like; I want the man (people) to release new music! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 22:10
Nothing wrong with keeping the old sound. All prog should have Rhodes and hammonds etc. It's the best sound. Why would you want to invent a new sound? What new sound is there to invent anyway? Those instruments were invented before prog was invented anyway. The trick is to have original melodies.
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Neck Romancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 22:16
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Why would you want to invent a new sound?

Because some people have had enough of the old sound. The new sounds might be better, too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 22:27
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:


Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Why would you want to invent a new sound?

Because some people have had enough of the old sound. The new sounds might be better, too.


What is the new sound? You're going to be using keys, bass, guitar, drums, wind instruments most likely. You going to use a moog style sound or some crappy synth sound? lol. Playing the instruments you like is not copying.

Edited by dr prog - July 29 2013 at 22:34
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2013 at 22:46
Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Why would you want to invent a new sound?

Because some people have had enough of the old sound. The new sounds might be better, too.

best music is now




Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 01:15
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:


Originally posted by Polo Polo wrote:


Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Why would you want to invent a new sound?

Because some people have had enough of the old sound. The new sounds might be better, too.

best music is now


Modern music is mainly crap lol.
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 05:15
^ Opinion.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 06:52
As far as symphonic progressive rock is concerned, 1970-1977 was a pretty productive period - The Flower Kings drink deeply from the draughts of progressive rock beers that were brewed in this period...thats what makes them so popular with the genre fans today....Steve Wilson's TRWRTS is also heavily influenced by the same period and I think it's more like Genesis circa 71-77 than the Flokis...thats why I love it - Lets have more please....

Edited by M27Barney - July 30 2013 at 06:53
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snow Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 07:36
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

It's impossible not to channel your influences, the trick is not to just be a copy. IMO The Flower Kings do more than pay homage to "classic" prog, which is ok, but not for me.

Wilson is a god to me...

Not Xbox?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 16:54
Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 17:05
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO

When you look to those for the standards for modern music, no wonder you think its crap. 

Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 17:07
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO
Wrong thread, brother.
"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 19:06
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO

When you look to those for the standards for modern music, no wonder you think its crap. 


Totally agree!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2013 at 04:13
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:


Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO

When you look to those for the standards for modern music, no wonder you think its crap. 


Yeah nah. Too many crappy influences in modern prog. The melodies are just not up there
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2013 at 12:00
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:


Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Flower kings, porcupine tree, tool, opeth are mainly crap IMO

When you look to those for the standards for modern music, no wonder you think its crap. 


Yeah nah. Too many crappy influences in modern prog. The melodies are just not up there



You guys don't know great music when you hear it.  IMO, of course Wink

On the other hand, I love 70's music of all sorts, and consider it the best music overall (as compared to modern music).  However, that does not mean that there is not great modern music.  I can admit that my prejudices are not facts.


Edited by infandous - July 31 2013 at 12:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2013 at 12:57
It's impossible to reason with someone who's listening is comprised of music from a span of 5 years.
Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2013 at 17:02
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

It's impossible to reason with someone who's listening is comprised of music from a span of 5 years.


Make that 15 years. Late 60s - early 80s
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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