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Prog ages well, doesn't it?

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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 10:53
Originally posted by Knobby Knobby wrote:


In the 80s with electro-dance everyone was using moogs & cheese-synths and even then they were making grunts that prog was dated. So much so nowadays if the fact is that synths have gone into disuse.
Moogs in 80s electro-dance?
Nah, those were the times of the Fairlight, the Yamaha DX-7, Roland D50 and Korg M1 (which you may call 'cheese-synths' if you want).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Knobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 11:09
Yes,come to think of it,  you are correct.
Early 90s/late 80s moogs were showing up in the pawnshops.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VOTOMS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 11:14
It's strange how old music that I myself love sounds dated for me, like post-punk, rockabilly, classical, ebm, death metal, grunge, and modern stuff too. 
But even old, progressive music can't be dated. Is like videogames, I dunno where's the fun playing modern games that seems so real. I like to beat the enemies with special moves at the joystick. THIS is funny. Oldschool sci-fi games from the snes makes me feel more alive than xbox kinect. I don't need a videogame to jump and walk as I do everyday of my life.
Keys, Mellotron, Moog, Hammond organs, they have the real futuristic effects, and no pop beat will find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 11:15
I guess part of the effect I mean is that Prog in the line of the 70's is still pretty much being made today, while most other of the styles I mentioned in the OP are not (unless meant for a retro-movie or things like that).
If you hear now a song in the style of the Beatles' 'She Loves You' you are immediately transported to the beat times (as in the movie Backbeat), if you hear now a song like late 60's psychedelic fuzz-but-folky-tinted song in the style of, say, Iron Butterfly, you are transported to the late 60's, if you hear something in the style of Boney M's Daddy Cool you are transported to the mid 70's, if you hear a song in the style of Soft Cell's 'Tainted Love' you are transported to the early 80's, and so on.
But if you hear a song like modern TFK or Steven Wilson or some Neal Morse or Wobbler etc, if you don't know the music (and neglect the effects of production), you are not sure if that song is from the 70's, 90's or 2010's, the style has not dated so much as to giving you clear indication that you are listening to 'dated' music. Conversely, you may listen to some unknown band from the 70's (without knowing their period) and you may think that they are a contemporary band doing Prog.
I agree that the 80's tended to sound 'clearly 80's' because of the instrumentation (infancy of digital synths) and production style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 11:19
There is a difference between music that shows its age and music of its age. Certainly instrumentation and production has a huge part to play in that - the tone of a particular guitar/amp combo, the sound of a monophonic analogue synth or electric piano, and my previous example of Airconditioning is an example of that for sure - it's tonality is very 70s sounding, (Sonja's singing hasn't been tainted by the need to sound like Annie Hasalm or Stevie Nicks..). But there is also the style to consider too - and the 70s does have very distinct styles of Prog (it's not all Symph, Canterbury and Krautrock) - we would not have people decrying/praising modern regressive prog if there wasn't a stylisic simularity between that and "golden era" prog.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neelus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 11:42
Okay...If a classic band (within any genre) produced a "groundbreaking sound" for that genre, and this sound is repeated by many other bands in the future, that band will become "timeless", like genesis, yes and floyd.  In jazz it is coltrane, davis, adderley.  Jazz folks can still listen to coltrane because his formulas are still in use.  In pop it is jackson.  In punk rock it is the clash for instance. In blues its Muddy waters.  Whoever breaks ground, sticks around.

Edited by Neelus - June 24 2013 at 11:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 12:25
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I guess part of the effect I mean is that Prog in the line of the 70's is still pretty much being made today, while most other of the styles I mentioned in the OP are not (unless meant for a retro-movie or things like that).
If you hear now a song in the style of the Beatles' 'She Loves You' you are immediately transported to the beat times (as in the movie Backbeat), if you hear now a song like late 60's psychedelic fuzz-but-folky-tinted song in the style of, say, Iron Butterfly, you are transported to the late 60's, if you hear something in the style of Boney M's Daddy Cool you are transported to the mid 70's, if you hear a song in the style of Soft Cell's 'Tainted Love' you are transported to the early 80's, and so on.
I would call that "music that defined an era" (in the collective consciousness) and by that reasoning Prog would never fit the brief because for most people Prog does not define the 70s, even in grown-up rock (that would be Zeppelin).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 12:39
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I guess part of the effect I mean is that Prog in the line of the 70's is still pretty much being made today, while most other of the styles I mentioned in the OP are not (unless meant for a retro-movie or things like that).
If you hear now a song in the style of the Beatles' 'She Loves You' you are immediately transported to the beat times (as in the movie Backbeat), if you hear now a song like late 60's psychedelic fuzz-but-folky-tinted song in the style of, say, Iron Butterfly, you are transported to the late 60's, if you hear something in the style of Boney M's Daddy Cool you are transported to the mid 70's, if you hear a song in the style of Soft Cell's 'Tainted Love' you are transported to the early 80's, and so on.
I would call that "music that defined an era" (in the collective consciousness) and by that reasoning Prog would never fit the brief because for most people Prog does not define the 70s, even in grown-up rock (that would be Zeppelin).
Sure, I agree, and that's an important reason why I think that Prog does not sound as dated as those other styles (even if for the people who know a bit, it did define an era from 1970 to 1974).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 12:48
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I guess part of the effect I mean is that Prog in the line of the 70's is still pretty much being made today, while most other of the styles I mentioned in the OP are not (unless meant for a retro-movie or things like that).
If you hear now a song in the style of the Beatles' 'She Loves You' you are immediately transported to the beat times (as in the movie Backbeat), if you hear now a song like late 60's psychedelic fuzz-but-folky-tinted song in the style of, say, Iron Butterfly, you are transported to the late 60's, if you hear something in the style of Boney M's Daddy Cool you are transported to the mid 70's, if you hear a song in the style of Soft Cell's 'Tainted Love' you are transported to the early 80's, and so on.
I would call that "music that defined an era" (in the collective consciousness) and by that reasoning Prog would never fit the brief because for most people Prog does not define the 70s, even in grown-up rock (that would be Zeppelin).
Sure, I agree, and that's an important reason why I think that Prog does not sound as dated as those other styles (even if for the people who know a bit, it did define an era from 1970 to 1974).
Needless to say, I disagree with your assertion. Firstly, Prog doesn't define that era (whereas Glam Rock does for most people, including jaded Prog fans) and secondly, music that defines an era does not necessarily sound dated. There is timeless Prog and dated Prog from the same era, not all of it travelled well.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neelus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 12:49
I guess if it is not as popular, it is not as likely to fall out of fashion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I-Juca Pirama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 12:56
As was said by others, I guess we only connect the sound to the era because we know that the "pattern" of music was a carachteristic of that decade.
For example, when I was younger and knew much less about pop music through the ages, I could think some 80s ballad was made on the year before (in the 2000!).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moogtron III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 13:03
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Everythying sounds as it should to me.


Same here.

I don't get what's meant by "dated."  Sure, you could say that some music doesn't hold up well over time because it was just a fad of a particular era and didn't have good quality.  You could say that you had to be around back then to really understand the music in it's cultural/historical context (which is, in a sense, true for all music).  But if something is good, then it doesn't matter when it was recorded.  Moog synthesizers might have been an instrumentation quirk particular to the 70's, but that doesn't matter; what matters is if the Moog sounds good in the context of the song.  The only reason that prog has "aged well" is that progressive rock bands, in general, tend to produce quality music.

Yes, same for me.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think the same goes for the question if something sounds dated or not.
Prog haters might think that moogs and mellotrons in '70's prog are hopelessly old, but in my ears early Genesis, Yes etc. still sound up to date.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 19:40
I guess I can agree with some bands, and on certain albums. However, I remember when I first heard Wakeman, with the Arthur album, it sounded so dated and odd... of course now after years of listening to it and loving it, I just can't hear what sounded so weird about it at first. More recently, when I just got into Camel, they did sound very old... obviously 70's... needless to say I loved them. Right now I don't seem to hear anything particularly dated on most of the 70's or 60's bands that I listen to regularly, because I'm very used to them, but for someone who isn't into prog they may just as well find them rather dated indeed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 20:15
Of course Prog is dated, in the worst way, especially the classic stuff.   And though great, well-recorded albums are indeed timeless [most of Floyd, Yes, Genesis], I've had perfect strangers upon hearing golden age ELP or Genesis or even Steeleye Span look at me with a blend of horror and wonder.   Truly, as if they didn't know real people actually listened to this stuff.   "Yeah it can be a little kitsch sometimes" I say as I I try to cautiously deflect the critique without getting too defensive.   "A little?" comes the response.

You can't win.   You can't persuade, convince, win-over, but I see their perspective.   I remember a Collab here once saying his wife called the prog he was listening to "Elevator music".    Wow, that hurts. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 20:17
I think certain albums have a timeless appeal - and that is true for many genres. You can listen to The Band's first two albums and not rightly ascertain their vintage if you were unaware of the release dates. Perhaps because the great albums are so oft imitated. You listen to The Pogues' Rum Sodomy and the Lash or If I Should Fall From Grace With God and they don't sound dated because Flogging Molly and Dropkick Murphys are, for the most part, recycling old Pogues bits.

King Crimson and certain Tull albums have that same appeal.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JaySpiral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 21:38
No I think it's absolutely subjective.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 22:38
I tend to like the groups that sound timeless and hold up to the test of time--there are lot's of fav groups on this site that don't meet that threshold for me---but I'd still take a listen now and then. One is ELP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2013 at 23:58
I think some prog has aged well.....some classic rock... and some jazz fusion has also aged well.....it's really subjective as someone said above.
My wife has never called any of the prog I listen to elevator music...she thinks it's too weird.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HackettFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2013 at 21:24
I think ITCOCK sounds very dated. Soft machine I and a few others after sound very dated. Jade Warrior released and Last Autumns Dream sound very dated. I think Voyage of the Acolyte sounds very dated. I like/love these albums, though, so I don't think stuff sounding dated is just reducible to what one doesn't like. I kind of agree with Gerinsky on balance that Prog tends not to sound dated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stegor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 26 2013 at 23:39
^ I was just listening to Last Autumn's Dream. I love it, but yes, it sounds very dated. But the next album, Floating World, a mere year or two later, is timeless. What happened? I think Jade Warrior is an excellent case study for the dated concept. It's not just the recording or the music of Last Autumn's Dream that's dated, it's the whole package. The album cover, the photos, the song titles, the instrumentation, the recording, the production, the engineering. Then they switched labels from Vertigo to Island and wham! Floating World and the next few albums are timeless. When I listen to some of those tracks I can't believe they were recorded in the '70's. And they weren't remixed by Steven Wilson.
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