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2 under-appreciated Bassists

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Poll Question: Who do you prefer ??
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13 [48.15%]
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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2 under-appreciated Bassists
    Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:19
Here are 2 bass players from 2 great bands, often over-looked here as they are only marginally Progressive.  Just wondering what the 'masses' think of their bass playing skills ??
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GabrielGenesis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 15:25
Wishbone Ash.


No contest.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:17
Martin Turner - he's one of the best.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:54
Martin Turner-great technique coupled with real emotion in his playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Memory Cube Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 16:59
Turner as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 17:20
I guess Turner.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 19:37
I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:20
Originally posted by dr wu23

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....Embarrassed
 
My thoughts as well, I never really noticed his bass playing on Wishbone Ash probably because I was more focused on the two lead guitarists. Cetera is excellent especially early on before they became more of a pop band. I know Tom has praised Cetera to me several times over the years.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2013 at 21:26
Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:48
I had a feeling Turner's bass would get the most lovin' around here.  They are both quite impressive when they are in their element - creative, competent and versatile.  Complex even. I guess I go for Cetera's playing more (I have heaps of Chicago LP's but only a couple from Wishbone).  When I witnessed MT's W.A. at BB Kings on my recent vacation to NYC I knew I had been missing out on something.  I do find them more at the 'rock' end of the scale, but there's proof that one need not play like Squire or Lee to be amazing.  Thanks for voting everyone Handshake
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 00:50
Originally posted by tszirmay

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! 
Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ??  If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:10
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm

Originally posted by dr wu23

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....Embarrassed
 
My thoughts as well, I never really noticed his bass playing on Wishbone Ash probably because I was more focused on the two lead guitarists. Cetera is excellent especially early on before they became more of a pop band. I know Tom has praised Cetera to me several times over the years.
Turner's playing style influenced Steve Harris without a doubt.  I've not heard any folks name-drop Cetera as an influence - shame really - his performances throughout the first 7 (in particular numbers 5 & 7) Chicago albums are pretty awesome.  Key tracks I'd recommend are
                                                                            'Poem For The People'
                                                                            'Mother'
                                                                            'Goodbye'
                                                                            'Something In This City Changes People'
                                                                            'Devil's Sweet'
                                                                            'Hanky Panky'
For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play, and I love the pairing of 'Warrior/Throw Down the Sword'.  The live dbl LP 'Live Dates' features great playing all 'round.  'The Pilgrim' being my favourite, and 'Phoenix' is a cool, extended jam piece. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 01:22
Originally posted by dr wu23

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....Embarrassed
Cetera's stamina on those first 3 Chicago albums is amazing - he's on fire.  I actually found his most technical accomplishments being on 5, 6 & 7.  His bass on 'Street Player' is tasteful, even with the disco slant.  Some of those later 70's M.O.R. albums from them feature some complex playing even though on the surface they sound smooth and accessible. 
Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tszirmay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:29
Originally posted by Tom Ozric

Originally posted by tszirmay

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! 
Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ??  If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!

That's the ONE!  Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 02:56
Originally posted by tszirmay

Originally posted by Tom Ozric

Originally posted by tszirmay

Martin Turner , check out FUBB on There's the Rub! 
Is that the song with the bass solo/riff at the intro ??  If so, they played that at the gig and it knocked me out !!

That's the ONE!  Amazing bass riff, a classic rumble to say the least. Not really all that complicated but very EFFECTIVE
There's The Rub - darn it, I had my chance to by this a few weeks back but got the Live Dates LP instead - I honestly thought it was from around 1979/80 (with that Cricket Ball cover) ?? Don't ask.....
Just read your (quality) review of the album - man I love your reviews.......anyway, I will be looking out for this one in the future.  For now, I will be removing 'Le Porte Del Domani' from the turntable and plonking on 'Argus' !!


Edited by Tom Ozric - July 22 2013 at 13:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 06:35
Originally posted by Tom Ozric

For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play
 
I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 09:17
Originally posted by Tom Ozric

Originally posted by dr wu23

I think Cetera's playing is superb on the first 3 Chicago lp's.....jazz, rock, and pop all rolled into one.
To be honest I have never really paid attention to Turner's playing on the Ash lp's and I have been a Wishbone Ash fan since the early 70's...and listened to all 3 early lp's when they came out.
Shame on me....Embarrassed
Cetera's stamina on those first 3 Chicago albums is amazing - he's on fire.  I actually found his most technical accomplishments being on 5, 6 & 7.  His bass on 'Street Player' is tasteful, even with the disco slant.  Some of those later 70's M.O.R. albums from them feature some complex playing even though on the surface they sound smooth and accessible. 
Turner seems more subtle or restrained - again, straight-forward on the surface, though anything but.
 
I always felt that Chicago drifted into pop radio territory from 5  on so I didn't listen to those lp's very often...but there are some interesting tracks even on the later lp's.
Argus is my favorite Ash lp and if his bass is not up front that may be why many have ignored his playing. There are many solid bass players out there like Turner who just don't get mentioned for various reasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 13:28
Originally posted by chopper

Originally posted by Tom Ozric

For Wishbone Ash, the bass on 'Argus' probably suffers from being mixed a frad low - there is a sweet riff in 'Sometime World' which is tricky to play
 
I'd have to disagree, the bass seems pretty clear on my copy of Argus, I do however totally agree about Sometime World - great bass riff.
You're right !!  I went back and gave my Argus LP a spin and my remark of it being low was incorrect (well, not as up-front as I'd like...).  I dunno what I was thinking.  'Time Was' is amazing, some great bass runs in there too.  I picked these 2 bassists coz they're not spoken about often and they really go by under the radar.  Turner loves his Gibson 'Thunderbird' bass !!  Cetera loves his Fender Precision basses.  He did have a Gibson SG bass around '72, and some nice wood-grain finished bass in the late-70's (don't know the make). 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote presdoug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2013 at 19:54
I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 23 2013 at 00:19
Originally posted by presdoug

I love the vids of Wishbone Ash with Turner, especially from the BBC with Vas Dis and Jailbait where he is playing a Rickenbacker and singing. He was, and by the sounds of it, still is, an important part of the group's live presence.
He does indeed have a majestic stage prescence.  I haven't heard him playing a Ricky - I have a Ricky, love the crunching tone.
 I did read an article in Bass Player magazine on Cetera (one of the only features on him I am aware of) and he never played a Ricky.  I do know he hardly ever picks up a bass these days (crooners aren't supposed to do that LOL).  I honestly don't know what happened there..........and he is a bit of a spoil-sport by not allowing any official release of Chicago performances that feature him Angry.  Damn his ego..............
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