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What Boz Really Thought About King Crimson

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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What Boz Really Thought About King Crimson
    Posted: July 25 2013 at 11:02
I just saw a "Behind the Music Remastered" episode about Bad Company.  I watched it to see what they had to say about Boz and Crimso.  When they got to the part of the story where Boz joined Bad Company, they ran a quick interview with him.  He said he quit Crimso because he was fed up with the silly lyrics he was asked to sing and said they were "gob-sh*te" LOL

An interesting thing about his statement that he quit Crimso...history tells a different story.  The chronology I've read goes like this:

1) After the release of Islands, an unknown band member described the quiet parts of the album as "airy-fairy sh%$"...perhaps Boz?
2) After the '71 Islands tour, Fripp fired Sinfield claiming musical differences and a loss of faith in Sinfield's ideas.  
3) The band broke up acrimoniously during subsequent rehearsals. 
4) The band agreed to patch up their differences for one more tour - with the promise they would disband after.
5) During the '72 tour everyone had a change of heart and told Fripp they wanted to stay together after all.
6) After the tour, Fripp sacked the whole lot of them anyway.
7) Boz appeared on Pete Sinfield's solo album "Still".
8) Boz joined Bad Company and made some money playing music for a change!

It appears to me as the common situation where your boss fires you, and in a flash of anger you shout, "you can't fire me, I quit" Angry

Comments?







Edited by The.Crimson.King - July 25 2013 at 11:03
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Post Options Post Options   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 11:21
Interesting. Boz obviously wanted to play rock with an earthier side. He no doubt would have liked the aggression of Red.

He certainly did go on to make a mountain of cash with Bad Company!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 12:34
I'd never presume to guess what really happened, but it's interesting to hear different sides of the story and try to imagine what might have happened.

Ironic that he took issue with the lyrics of Pete Sinfield, then went on to play (though tellingly, not sing) in a band who had some of the most hilariously heavy-handed lyrics I've ever come across.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 13:43
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I'd never presume to guess what really happened, but it's interesting to hear different sides of the story and try to imagine what might have happened.

Ironic that he took issue with the lyrics of Pete Sinfield, then went on to play (though tellingly, not sing) in a band who had some of the most hilariously heavy-handed lyrics I've ever come across.

You're right, nobody really knows what happened but those 5 guys, but it sure is fun trying to fill in the blanks Wink

Based on his comment, I was also surprised Boz would have had anything to do with Sinfield's solo album...maybe he just did it to spite RF who was about the only Crimson related musician not invited to play on the album.

RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 13:52
I guess starving and having Bob Fripp as your boss can cloud your judgment sometimes.  I sometimes forget that all these famous groundbreaking musicians/bands were basically just kids.  Young men don't always choose their words carefully or subject their opinions to reason rather than emotion.

edit: hold that thought.  Boz's comments came much later, didn't they?  Never mind.  Maybe my comments don't apply here.


Edited by HolyMoly - July 25 2013 at 13:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Horizons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 13:59
Boz is bst KC singer 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2013 at 14:03
Originally posted by HolyMoly

I guess starving and having Bob Fripp as your boss can cloud your judgment sometimes.  I sometimes forget that all these famous groundbreaking musicians/bands were basically just kids.  Young men don't always choose their words carefully or subject their opinions to reason rather than emotion.

edit: hold that thought.  Boz's comments came much later, didn't they?  Never mind.  Maybe my comments don't apply here.

Ya, Boz appeared to be in his 50's when the interview used in the Bad Company doc happened...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 01:56
I just think Fripps level of ambition (artisticly) would often create tensions in his band(s).
But who cares, the fact that he is kinda nuts, was the reason he was able to provide some of the best albums ever.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Earthmover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 03:27
I'm not surprised.

Islands is still probably my favorite KC, and Burrell's singing brought a whole lot into the album.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 23:13
Originally posted by mister nobody

I'm not surprised.

Islands is still probably my favorite KC, and Burrell's singing brought a whole lot into the album.

I love Islands too.  I have several King Crimson Collectors Club live albums of the '71 and '72 tours and not only did Boz do a great job with vocals on the Islands material, he was outstanding on the Lizard tracks (Cirkus, Lady of the Dancing Water), Pictures of a City, and Schizoid Man.  I think it's ironic that he found fame and fortune as a bassist rather than a vocalist.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 05:26
I like Islands but it is far from my favorite KC album.  As to Boz, I could give a rat's ass what he thought.  Then again I often feel the same way about Robert Fripp.

They did much better stuff after he left.  But I'm not going to knock Boz for moving on to making music he enjoyed doing better and making more money at.


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 27 2013 at 05:30
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Post Options Post Options   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 13:35
Originally posted by tamijo

I just think Fripps level of ambition (artisticly) would often create tensions in his band(s).
But who cares, the fact that he is kinda nuts, was the reason he was able to provide some of the best albums ever.

Fripp once said that King Crimson was "a way of doing things."  It was his band, if the musicians didn't like the way that he ran it, they were free to leave anytime.  

I find it interesting that so many musicians, including Bill Bruford, Mel Collins and others, came back into KC time and again.  

Personally, I thought Boz was a mediocre talent who filled a role that needed to be filled.  I'm very glad he hit the cash register in "Bad Company," that is the way rock & roll should work.  However, whenever anyone trashes RF, I just roll my eyes.  

His band, his party, check your ego at the door please, let's get down to business, tune your instruments. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 15:50
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

...
RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused 
 
I can imagine that it takes a lot of talent to play bass on any Bad Company album!  Basic and beginner level for the most part!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 17:20
^ Since Boz was able to handle the bass parts in Schizoid Man, he must have been bored to tears by "Feel Like Makin' Love" LOL

Edited by The.Crimson.King - July 27 2013 at 17:20
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Post Options Post Options   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2013 at 14:07
Boz had experience/ties with the "British Blues Boom' era. Alexis Korner, Steve Marriot, etc..and he played and sang some American R&B as well. Can you imagine having all of that experience under your belt years before being asked to sing Sinfield's lyrics? That's quite a contrast and adjustment to make considering? So many British musicians were interested in American R&B, Blues, and Rock n' Roll". For example Chris Farlowe ..vocalist for Atomic Rooster, Zoot Money and Keith Tippet (who had an interest in Jazz) all crossed paths with the "Progressive Rock" development of the 70's. Ironically...Boz did an amazing job on Islands. I personally believe he shared the feelings of Gordon Haskell. Gordon Haskell was so frustrated with Sinfield's lyrical content in the song "Cirkus" that he screamed in anguish on the recording...which was something pointed out by Crimheads as creepy and fitting to the piece , yet the intention was the opposite. He cracked himself up at the closing of "Indoor Games" with the sinister laughing ...which in his mind he was thinking...."Christ! why on earth am I singing this?"
Crimheads in the 70's thought it was part of the invention and  not the truthful moment.
 
After Greg Lake departed, it seemed difficult for Fripp to instruct a vocalist on what he wanted to surface through the pieces. Boz and Haskell both did a magnificent job, but hated the lyrics. Live concert recordings of Boz in 1971 displays a very serious minded progressive rock vocalist. Live concert recordings from 1972 do not. Most of the 72' concert recordings display Wallace, Collins, and Boz wishing to overthrow the progressive side to Crimso and replacing it with a more R&B/Blues aspect of things. Fripp was not a Blues guitarist and observe those concerts if you will...he sounds quite lost. Such was the case that the 3 of them...(Wallace, Collins, and Boz), moved into a different musical direction by recording an album with Alexis Korner and Snape. Playing songs that moved and breathed in the "British Blues Boom" form and almost immediately after their departure. Boz , Wallace, and Collins did an excellent job playing the pre-"Larks Tongues In Aspic/Starless" material which is available on the Islands 40th anniversary re-mix release. Boz , ironically...could fit into any material placed in front of him. That is evident and very ironic. His vocals on the Islands album are stylistically based on the sound of the Shulman brothers of Gentle Giant. For example....Boz would have done a magnificent job on "Runaway", "Edge Of Twilight" "Dog's Life" and many of the others where the vocals cross over into Folk, Blues, and dramatic poetic progressive.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2013 at 07:11
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

...
RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused 
 
I can imagine that it takes a lot of talent to play bass on any Bad Company album!  Basic and beginner level for the most part!
Obviously Bad Co songs are basically simpler than KCs, but Boz does play some excellent little bass lines. Have a listen to "Feel like making love" or "Can't get enough".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Bearded Bard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2013 at 07:49
Originally posted by TODDLER

Gordon Haskell was so frustrated with Sinfield's lyrical content in the song "Cirkus" that he screamed in anguish on the recording...which was something pointed out by Crimheads as creepy and fitting to the piece , yet the intention was the opposite. He cracked himself up at the closing of "Indoor Games" with the sinister laughing ...which in his mind he was thinking...."Christ! why on earth am I singing this?"
Crimheads in the 70's thought it was part of the invention and  not the truthful moment.
I didn't know this. Thanks for sharing. Very interesting! I'll keep this in mind the next time I listen to Lizard.

Edited by The Bearded Bard - August 01 2013 at 07:50
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Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2013 at 10:15
Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

...
RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused 
 
I can imagine that it takes a lot of talent to play bass on any Bad Company album!  Basic and beginner level for the most part!


So what? Who cares about basslines, anyway? Who listens to the bass???

And I know what I'm talking about: I'm a former bassist.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2013 at 18:50
Originally posted by CPicard


Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King


...

RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, <span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 1.2">I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused </span>

 

I can imagine that it takes a lot of talent to play bass on any Bad Company album!  Basic and beginner level for the most part!
So what? Who cares about basslines, anyway? Who listens to the bass???And I know what I'm talking about: I'm a former bassist.


When I listen to Yes I do listen to the bass, and enjoy it a lot. And it's not the only band in which I enjoy the bass.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2013 at 19:04
Originally posted by CPicard

Originally posted by moshkito

Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

...
RF's journal quoted a Melody Maker article 4/24/71, "In fact, Fripp taught Boz to play bass from scratch, starting two months ago because they couldn't find a suitable bassist".  Based on this fact, I found Boz' remarks in the documentary especially disappointing.  If it wasn't for the situation in King Crimson that lead to RF teaching him to play bass, the Bad Company gig would never have been his and all the fame & fortune it gave him would have gone to someone else.  I would think he would have had nicer things to say about Crimso Confused 
 
I can imagine that it takes a lot of talent to play bass on any Bad Company album!  Basic and beginner level for the most part!


So what? Who cares about basslines, anyway? Who listens to the bass???

And I know what I'm talking about: I'm a former bassist.

How many bass players does it take to change a light bulb?
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who cares?

And before anyone jumps down my throat...I started out as a bass player in 70's prog bands Wink
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