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Any prog fans also into 80's US hardcore punk?

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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:23
So are there any other prog fans out there who got into 80's US hardcore punk?  If so, how did it happen and what are your favourite albums?

I got into hardcore in the mid 80's 'cause I was looking for something new.  I grew up with the Beatles in the 60's and prog in the 70's.  By the time the 80's arrived, my fave prog bands were behaving badly and I grew bitterly disappointed in their new found pop-prog tendencies.  Also, I never was aware of the neo-prog bands until many years later so I had no idea that IQ, Twelfth Night, and Marillion had picked up the 70's prog torch.  

I would listen to my local college radio station (KFJC - Los Altos Hills, CA) and they played stuff all over the map.  Every Saturday night was hardcore punk night and I tuned in one week and loved what I was hearing.  Then I went to a few live shows at a club called "The Keystone" and was amazed at what I saw.  There were no roadies or rock star trappings, they just plugged in and let it rip.

Some of my favourites (which I still listen to today)...

Dead Kennedy's - Plastic Surgery Disasters, In God We Trust Inc.
Black Flag - Damaged, My War
DRI - Dealing With It
Suicidal Tendencies - s/t
Husker Du - Metal Circus, Zen Arcade
SWA - Your Future If You Want It
MDC - This Blood's For You
Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime, Buzz or Howl Under the Influence of Heat
Butthole Surfers - Locust Abortion Technician
Fear - The Record
Meat Puppets - Up On the Sun
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:31
Yes like Husker Du, Kennedys, others I don't know well

Edited by tamijo - July 26 2013 at 11:32
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:44
Kennedys i was invited to this show in Copenhagen :




Hüsker Du, was another friend who got Zen Arcade, and short after i got Candy Apple Grey on Vinyl
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:47
I love that stuff too.  In the early 80s, when I was in my early teens, I was into Top 40 music as well as a few select classic bands like Beatles, Moody Blues, Pink Floyd, and Camel.   But at the age of 15, I got my first job, it was in a big record store, probably the biggest in all Miami.  The employees there had tattoos and punky hairdos, and their culture rubbed off on me a little.  The albums they played in the store were what today is called "classic alternative"  - REM, New Order, the Cure, stuff like that.   But after the store closed and the staff stayed on hand to count the registers and such, they would often pull out this album that was the most insane thing I'd ever heard - Suicidal Tendencies' debut album.   It was a real eye opener, and with some doubt still in my mind I went ahead and bought my own copy.  That was my entry to hardcore.  

Soon my friend and I combed the record stores for any hardcore album that looked interesting.  There wasn't really any way of knowing what was "good" and what wasn't, no internet, no books about it (well maybe a couple), just the album cover and song titles.   Minutemen and Black Flag were among the first bands I checked out (in fact, I'd seen the Minutemen before, opening for REM, who I went to see around this time on their Fables tour), and soon the entire SST label was on my wish list.  

It wasn't until a few years later that I really became a prog guy and realized that those older Genesis albums were actually really good.

actually, come to think of it, Suicidal Tendencies was sort of a continuation of a recent interest in punk rock I'd developed.  A friend at school (who later drummed for the Goo Goo Dolls, among others) was playing a cassette of the Sex Pistols album, and  I was pretty pumped about that.   For Junior Prom, me and a few friends and our dates rented a limousine, and one of the guys put in a cassette of Fear "The Record" which impressed me as well.  I was also into The Jam, which was kind of punk too.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 11:52
My comments on your list in the OP:

Dead Kennedy's - Plastic Surgery Disasters, In God We Trust Inc. -- one of my absolute favorite albums.  It's mind blowing.
DRI - Dealing With It -- This album kicks!  First heard them through the P.EA.C.E. compilation LP (heard that one?)
Suicidal Tendencies - s/t - see above
Husker Du - Metal Circus, Zen Arcade -- I was never a huge Husker fan, but those two are definitely good. My fav is Flip Yr Wig
SWA - Your Future If You Want It -- I kind of remember this one.
MDC - This Blood's For You -- Don't know this one, but I was (and still am) hooked on their debut album.
Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime, Buzz or Howl Under the Influence of Heat - one of my 10 favorite bands of all time.
Butthole Surfers - Locust Abortion Technician -- Hairway is my favorite but they're all great except their last two.
Fear - The Record - see above
Meat Puppets - Up On the Sun -- I've had a love/hate thing with the Meat Puppets, but I think this is the first one I ever got by them (it was their current album at the time).  I followed them up through Huevos but then lost touch.  Hard to say what my favorite is.



Edited by HolyMoly - July 26 2013 at 11:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 17:30
Nice to see I'm not the only one...some other thoughts...

1)  How could I forget to mention the SF hardcore band Joe Pop-O-Pie!  "Joe's Third Record" is a classic.  The super slow cover of the Beatles "I Am the Walrus" that opens the album was the first hardcore song I ever heard on KFJC and remains my all time fave...

2) I remember hearing "Institutionalized" and laughing myself sick...it was amazing...picked up the album and still love the whole thing.

3) I bought a horrible VHS copy of The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization for a dollar at a swap meet and that turned me on to Fear.  "I Love Livin in the City" is one of my fave hardcore songs.

4) KFJC also turned me on to the Sex Pistols...they played Submission one day and I couldn't believe that was the Pistols.  I'd bought into the media hype that said they couldn't play their own instruments...wrong...well, maybe Sid, but Steve Jones was a fantastic guitar player.  I think "Bodies" is one of the great rock songs of all time.

5) I bought a ticket to SST's 1985 "The Tour" to see Husker Du headline but left as a Minutemen fanatic.  They were fantastic, it was like the Three Stooges playing punk rock!  Husker Du's performance was literally painful to watch, they were in the middle of breaking up and drummer Grant was strung out...and they were unbearably loud. 

6) Never heard the PEACE compilation...1 day I heard someone playing this incredible hardcore, just absolute chaos with this maniac singing so fast you couldn't understand a single word...that was DRI's Dealing with It! 

7) KFJC turned me on the DK's too when they played "Moon Over Marin".  Saw several of these bands live but the most amazing performance was the Dead Kennedy's in 1985.  They were touring on "Frankenchrist" and all came out wearing shriners hats and Jello had on the sweater...they played "Nazi Punks..." for the encore and I felt like a riot was about to break at out any second.

8) The Meat Puppets are one of my least fave SST bands...musically they did a great job but their mix of Grateful Dead Americana and hardcore never really worked too well for me...

9) SWA was the opening band on SST's 1985 "The Tour".  Their 1st (and only?) album had great material (and Chuck from Black Flag on bass) but horrible production and sounded like it was recorded underwater.  Some of The Minutemen and Black Flag early EP's had the same problem...Henry Rollins seems to lay the blame on SST producer/engineer "Spot".

10) I didn't get into Black Flag until the 90's.  I knew Greg Ginn ran the label and I was into a bunch of SST bands but what I saw of them in the Decline and Fall documentary didn't impress me.  Eventually, I read an excerpt from Henry Rollins' book "Get in the Van - The Story of Black Flag" and decided to check them out.  Black Flag with Henry was a very different animal than with the original singers (Keith Morris and Ron Reyes)...

Edited by The.Crimson.King - July 26 2013 at 17:31
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 22:05
2 favorite bands of mine I forgot to mention were from Chicago - Naked Raygun and the Effigies.  Both very tough and very melodic too.  Not really hardcore at all, in the strict sense, though they were undeniably of that era.  

A few years ago, the Effigies re-formed with a new guitarist and recorded an album of all new material ("Reside") which is quite good.  They even went on tour and I got so see them, an opportunity I'd never dreamed I'd get (same goes for Magma, but that's another story).  I can't tell you how happy I was to see the Effigies, guys several years older than me, proudly rocking out at a small club with some great new material they'd written.  They also revisited their earliest albums, but oddly decided to ignore those later albums like Fly On a Wire and Ink (which I love, but which were more hard rock than punk/hardcore).

By the way, this was the P.E.A.C.E. compilation I was talking about.   A double album with about 50 songs from hardcore acts around the world.  I discovered a LOT of bands from this album.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 22:15
Husker Du is great (and from my hometown!)....

Used to love Black Flag, Minor Threat, and a few others.

But Minutemen remain one of my all time faves and the punk band I listen to most these days, because of their combination of humor/anger, aggression, and chops.  Few punk bands play like they do.  Watt and Hurley....damn incredible!  And the big man....his life was way too short....and a lesson for all aspiring rock musicians: Don't let the girlfriend drive the van so you can sleep.  Wink  "Double Nickels" will always be one of my go-to road selections.  And then after MM we had Firehose, who were not too bad.






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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 22:59
Originally posted by Finnforest

Husker Du is great (and from my hometown!)....

Used to love Black Flag, Minor Threat, and a few others.

But Minutemen remain one of my all time faves and the punk band I listen to most these days, because of their combination of humor/anger, aggression, and chops.  Few punk bands play like they do.  Watt and Hurley....damn incredible!  And the big man....his life was way too short....and a lesson for all aspiring rock musicians: Don't let the girlfriend drive the van so you can sleep.  Wink  "Double Nickels" will always be one of my go-to road selections.  And then after MM we had Firehose, who were not too bad.

Ya, the Minutemen were so much more than just a hardcore/punk band.  I saw them twice, once before Double Nickels and once about 3 months before D left us...I tell you there was nothing like seeing 300 pound D pogoing around the stage to Corona...he was a great undiscovered talent.  And that rhythm section...OMG...the great prog bassists had nothing on Mike Watt.  After D died Guitar Player magazine never made any mention of his death so I wrote them a ripping letter that one of the most unique American guitar players was right under their nose and they needed to wake up and check out his accomplishments.  Sadly, they never did. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote infocat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 23:34
In high school I remember hearing about Black Flag, but I was in to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and I'm fairly certain it was illegal to like both punk and metal at the same time.   LOL

My step-brother (same age) did manage to get the Suicidal Tendencies debut around then.  A rough and amazing album that I got on CD just a year or two ago.  Only other hardcore album I can think that I have is Zen Arcade.  'ts ok, but I don't often listen to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2013 at 23:47
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King

Originally posted by Finnforest

Husker Du is great (and from my hometown!)....

Used to love Black Flag, Minor Threat, and a few others.

But Minutemen remain one of my all time faves and the punk band I listen to most these days, because of their combination of humor/anger, aggression, and chops.  Few punk bands play like they do.  Watt and Hurley....damn incredible!  And the big man....his life was way too short....and a lesson for all aspiring rock musicians: Don't let the girlfriend drive the van so you can sleep.  Wink  "Double Nickels" will always be one of my go-to road selections.  And then after MM we had Firehose, who were not too bad.

Ya, the Minutemen were so much more than just a hardcore/punk band.  I saw them twice, once before Double Nickels and once about 3 months before D left us...I tell you there was nothing like seeing 300 pound D pogoing around the stage to Corona...he was a great undiscovered talent.  And that rhythm section...OMG...the great prog bassists had nothing on Mike Watt.  After D died Guitar Player magazine never made any mention of his death so I wrote them a ripping letter that one of the most unique American guitar players was right under their nose and they needed to wake up and check out his accomplishments.  Sadly, they never did. 



Wow, you and Steve both saw the MM.  Now I'm even more jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!AngryLOL  My hat is off to you for writing that letter. 


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ambient Hurricanes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 00:48
I started listening to some of this stuff a while ago but never got very far as I had other things I was getting into...I need to explore hardcore more as I have enjoyed what I've heard from bands in this style.  Minutemen are pretty darn good.  Like Fugazi too (though they might be from a little later on).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 07:51
Originally posted by infocat

In high school I remember hearing about Black Flag, but I was in to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and I'm fairly certain it was illegal to like both punk and metal at the same time.   LOL

My step-brother (same age) did manage to get the Suicidal Tendencies debut around then.  A rough and amazing album that I got on CD just a year or two ago.  Only other hardcore album I can think that I have is Zen Arcade.  'ts ok, but I don't often listen to it.
I remember how metal and punk were indeed kept very separate.  Back then, metal meant commercial -- most of the classic 70s bands like Judas Priest and Scorpions had glossed over their sound (I was a big Scorpions fan, actually), and more tough bands like Metallica were only starting out.  But then I remember when D.R.I., one of the fastest hardcore bands there was, came out with the first thrash metal album I ever heard, called "Crossover".  Suicidal Tendencies had likewise crossed over into metal as well.   Me, I wasn't really as willing to cross the line from punk to metal at the time - I was convinced I'd left metal behind.  It wasn't until many many years later that I discovered that metal itself all along had evolved into something more interesting than guys with big hair and tights.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 12:53
Originally posted by infocat


My step-brother (same age) did manage to get the Suicidal Tendencies debut around then.  A rough and amazing album that I got on CD just a year or two ago.  Only other hardcore album I can think that I have is Zen Arcade.  'ts ok, but I don't often listen to it.

Ya, Zen Arcade is extremely uneven.  Some great songs like "Chartered Trips", "When Pink Turns to Blue", "Something I Learned Today", "Broken Home Broken Heart" and "Newest Industry" mixed in with some noise loop experimentation that comes up short.  There was a friendly competition at the time between Husker Du and The Minutemen as to who could release the best double album.  Zen Arcade came 1st but the Minutemen blew them out of the water with their masterpiece Double Nickels on the Dime...on the cover of the original LP release of Double Nickels one of the Minutemen scrawled a note that said, "Take that Huskers!" LOL


Edited by The.Crimson.King - July 27 2013 at 12:53
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 13:06
Originally posted by HolyMoly

Originally posted by infocat

In high school I remember hearing about Black Flag, but I was in to Iron Maiden and Metallica, and I'm fairly certain it was illegal to like both punk and metal at the same time.   LOL

I remember how metal and punk were indeed kept very separate.  Back then, metal meant commercial -- most of the classic 70s bands like Judas Priest and Scorpions had glossed over their sound (I was a big Scorpions fan, actually), and more tough bands like Metallica were only starting out.  But then I remember when D.R.I., one of the fastest hardcore bands there was, came out with the first thrash metal album I ever heard, called "Crossover".  Suicidal Tendencies had likewise crossed over into metal as well.   Me, I wasn't really as willing to cross the line from punk to metal at the time - I was convinced I'd left metal behind.  It wasn't until many many years later that I discovered that metal itself all along had evolved into something more interesting than guys with big hair and tights.

Same for me.  The only metal bands I was into in the 70's were Black Sabbath and AC/DC...then Ozzy left and Bon died.  I stayed far away from metal through the mid 80's 'cause it seemed to mean those awful LA hair bands.  Then I started stumbling across things like Celtic Frost & Candlemass and found beneath the hair metal onslaught metal was evolving in a pretty cool way.  I also didn't get on board with the DRI and Suicidal metal crossover stuff.  I hated Metallica (still do) but loved Megadeth's "Peace Sells But Who's Buying?".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 13:10
Originally posted by HolyMoly



By the way, this was the P.E.A.C.E. compilation I was talking about.   A double album with about 50 songs from hardcore acts around the world.  I discovered a LOT of bands from this album.


Wow, just took a look at the song list and I've only heard of 6 or 7 of the 60 bands!!!  Thanks!!!  Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prog Sothoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2013 at 13:32
Funny enough, it was the crossover scene that really got me into noisy stuff.Approve
 
Bands like early Corrosion Of Conformity, The Accused, Post Mortem, Dead Brain Cells, Italy's Raw Power and a bunch of others pretty much wrenched me away from much of the 'college radio' music I was into before. Later I would branch out into either direction, appreciating the more punk side of things (Dag Nasty & such) and obviously alot of straight up thrash metal...which led to the more extreme metal genres.
 
edit: Incidentally, the first concert I ever went to was Suicidal Tendencies in 1988.


Edited by Prog Sothoth - July 27 2013 at 13:33
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 14:30
Originally posted by Finnforest


Wow, you and Steve both saw the MM.  Now I'm even more jealous!!!!!!!!!!!!AngryLOL  My hat is off to you for writing that letter. 

Thanks...I was so mad at Guitar Player for ignoring D I never bought another subscription and started reading Guitar World instead!

Here's some pix I took on that 1984 SST concert package they called "The Tour".  I saw it in spring '84 at The Keystone in Palo Alto CA..."Double Nickels on the Dime" came out in July.  Those were some fun music days!

Merril Ward and Chuck Dukowski (formerly of Black Flag) from SWA:

Joe Baiza and Jack Brewer of Saccharine Trust:

Curt Kirkwood of The Meat Puppets:

Bob Mould from Husker Du:

Grant from Husker Du:

George and Watt:

A couple of D Boon:


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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 14:49

I'm not worthy!

Bowdown


Edited by HolyMoly - July 30 2013 at 14:49
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2013 at 14:52
I love Saccharine Trust by the way.  They're actually being evaluated for addition to PA, if you can believe that.  "Pagan Icons" is among my favorite albums.

I made my own hardcore album on a 4-track back in the early 90s (under the name "Blasphart"), and I pretty much modeled my singing style after Jack Brewer and Jello Biafra.
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