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Topic ClosedIs Progressive rock "Progressive"?

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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Is Progressive rock "Progressive"?
    Posted: October 01 2013 at 10:12
^ Yes!!! Thank you. It's a hit or miss scenario. You just have to know where to look or find that perfect blend classic/modern production characteristics.
We can all be happy...we just gotta know where to look. ;)

Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 07:37
While I agree that most of the classic rock bands began to sound rather plasticy from the 80s and onwards, that is mostly down to the production values. Nothing to do with the players not being able to playConfused
So much more out there, if you just know where to look. Speaking for myself, I don't keep searching for gold in a mine that repeatedly shows itself to be barren. 

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 07:26
^ That is what he is saying. 
"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 05:25
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Not all progressions are good.
Progressing into lifeless music ....void of feel and humanity.... is the dark wormhole most modern prog bands have descended into.  This has been aided by computer programs that take away the necessity to pay attention to what is actually important.

Why would you record music on a device that was designed to do word processing?
....
...
...

Example?

How about YES.  Talk was their first album done on a Mac computer.  It sounds about as lifeless as that band could ever sound.

I used to run a Prog Rock label and would get 10 submissions a week from bands all over the earth and would listen to these lifeless demos and recordings that were done on computers.  I finally realized that no one was making the great stuff anymore. 

What drummer would not want to make a Prog rock album.. could it really be that hard to find someone to track with?
Apparently so.  I can't tell you how many demos I would hear with drum machines and midi synth patches.  How can you sign a band when the most important element (the drummer) is no were to be found?

What I mean is that all the great Prog bands had GREAT drummers driving the band.  You NEED a great drummer to keep it all together and move the band properly through the dynamic elements.   Can't do that on a drum machine.. can't do it..

 
So what you are saying is that because we have today got tools better/worse/diffrent than what we had in 1971.
We can assume that bands like :
The Mars Volta, Opeth, Porcupine, Tool, Pendragon, Acid Mothers Temple, Koenjihyakkei, The Decemberists,
Änglagård, Colour Haze. ect ect ect.
 
Have no idear about playing their instruments, because they most likely record everything one note at the time,and copy paste it all into computers.
 
Is that what you are saying, or ?
 
 
 


Edited by tamijo - October 01 2013 at 05:29
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 05:07
For futher refrence check these related websides :
 
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 03:56
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Yup, two of the most successful bands in the whole world ever had brilliant drummers.
The Beatles Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band album cover
He said 'great', which I agree with- that doesn't necessarily mean insane fusion chops, a great drummer for a band is first & foremost absolutely solid, strong, in time, driving. Which I think both Ringo & Mason are. Ringo cops a lot of flak.
This was referring to his comment that you also picked-up on, not that they were not "great" drummers.
 
I would be the first to defend Ringo and Mason (and have done on many occasions) - they were the right drummers for those bands - Bozzio or Brufford in either of those bands would not have produced those two landmark albums.
Right, my apologies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 03:41
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 

LOL Funny
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 03:38
Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Yup, two of the most successful bands in the whole world ever had brilliant drummers.
The Beatles Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band album cover
He said 'great', which I agree with- that doesn't necessarily mean insane fusion chops, a great drummer for a band is first & foremost absolutely solid, strong, in time, driving. Which I think both Ringo & Mason are. Ringo cops a lot of flak.
This was referring to his comment that you also picked-up on, not that they were not "great" drummers.
 
I would be the first to defend Ringo and Mason (and have done on many occasions) - they were the right drummers for those bands - Bozzio or Brufford in either of those bands would not have produced those two landmark albums.
"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 03:28
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Example?
I used to run a Prog Rock label and would get 10 submissions a week from bands all over the earth and would listen to these lifeless demos and recordings that were done on computers.  I finally realized that no one was making the great stuff anymore. 

What drummer would not want to make a Prog rock album
.. could it really be that hard to find someone to track with?
Apparently so.  I can't tell you how many demos I would hear with drum machines and midi synth patches.  How can you sign a band when the most important element (the drummer) is no were to be found?

What I mean is that all the great Prog bands had GREAT drummers driving the band.  You NEED a great drummer to keep it all together and move the band properly through the dynamic elements.   Can't do that on a drum machine.. can't do it..

In my experience, there are not many decent drummers around, let alone great drummers, of which there are very few, let alone drummers who want to do prog, of which there are next to none. I'm not sure where you get that from- the majority of drummers don't want to complicated time sig stuff or whatever, they want to rock out, or groove, or thrash around in 4/4, which is fine. Best bet is finding a jazz fusion drummer, which is still easier said than done.

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Yup, two of the most successful bands in the whole world ever had brilliant drummers.
The Beatles Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band album cover
He said 'great', which I agree with- that doesn't necessarily mean insane fusion chops, a great drummer for a band is first & foremost absolutely solid, strong, in time, driving. Which I think both Ringo & Mason are. Ringo cops a lot of flak.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 02:02
Yup, two of the most successful bands in the whole world ever had brilliant drummers.
The Beatles Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band album cover


Edited by Dean - October 01 2013 at 02:05
"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 01:07
Example?

How about YES.  Talk was their first album done on a Mac computer.  It sounds about as lifeless as that band could ever sound.

I used to run a Prog Rock label and would get 10 submissions a week from bands all over the earth and would listen to these lifeless demos and recordings that were done on computers.  I finally realized that no one was making the great stuff anymore. 

What drummer would not want to make a Prog rock album.. could it really be that hard to find someone to track with?
Apparently so.  I can't tell you how many demos I would hear with drum machines and midi synth patches.  How can you sign a band when the most important element (the drummer) is no were to be found?

What I mean is that all the great Prog bands had GREAT drummers driving the band.  You NEED a great drummer to keep it all together and move the band properly through the dynamic elements.   Can't do that on a drum machine.. can't do it..


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 22:58
Is Prog rock progressive? Is this a trick question? Is an evil trick to get into crazy semantics about what music material is progressive through and through or just Prog-related?

Oh boy.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 14:23
He couldn't... Quelle surpriseErmm

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 13:57
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Not all progressions are good.
Progressing into lifeless music ....void of feel and humanity.... is the dark wormhole most modern prog bands have descended into.  

Could you provide an example?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 13:53
Not all progressions are good.
Progressing into lifeless music ....void of feel and humanity.... is the dark wormhole most modern prog bands have descended into.  This has been aided by computer programs that take away the necessity to pay attention to what is actually important.

Why would you record music on a device that was designed to do word processing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 11:46
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I don't care. I like what I like.
There you have it. Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:34
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Genres of music are classified generally by their rhythm section first.  If that is absent, then by the instruments used and composition style.

Prog Rock has drummers and bassists that are more jazz leaning... but the rock comes in on occasion that gives it the rock edge that lacks in more traditional jazz.

Odd meters, syncopation and you are moving the music quickly into prog.  Throw in some Hammond Organ, Mellotron, Moog and it's Prog for sure.

Prog is a general style of music.  It is wrong to think it needs to keep changing into something else.  Traditional Jazz has been played the same for decades. Classical for centuries.  Folk for ages. 

There is a lot that can be done with the classic Prog instruments from the Golden Age.  Same stacks of keyboards, Gibson and Fender electric guitars, Fender and Marshall Amps, Rickeback and Fender Jazz basses.  Drum sets with lots of Tom racks.  Then bring in any other instruments from anywhere and blend those in. 

The great thing about Prog is that it probably has the LEAST number or rules for it's genre... but there still are rules.

Playing a steady rock beat in 4/4 time constantly is not going sound Prog for too long.

The infusion of Metal into Prog such as NEO Prog is just bad metal in my opinion.  If I want Metal, I'll play Sabbath or Judas Priest.  You listen to "Sleep Theater"......not me.




Assumptions are the mother of all mistakesWink

....and recipes for music are perhaps the utmost boring starting point you could ever have as a musician. Just my opinion though, but you seem to be-grieve the fact that music evolution happened since the late 70s, so why even bother eh? Stick to your guns and let the other of us enjoy the "new" fruits on the rock tree why don't ya.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 05:24
Many good points there, especialy wild with this one :
You can record "part two" as a complete album decades later when you become famous.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 01:50
"You know what uranium is, right?
It’s this thing called nuclear weapons.
And other things.
Like lots of things are done with uranium.
Including some bad things.
But nobody talks about that."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 00:24
Genres of music are classified generally by their rhythm section first.  If that is absent, then by the instruments used and composition style.

Prog Rock has drummers and bassists that are more jazz leaning... but the rock comes in on occasion that gives it the rock edge that lacks in more traditional jazz.

Odd meters, syncopation and you are moving the music quickly into prog.  Throw in some Hammond Organ, Mellotron, Moog and it's Prog for sure.

Prog is a general style of music.  It is wrong to think it needs to keep changing into something else.  Traditional Jazz has been played the same for decades. Classical for centuries.  Folk for ages. 

There is a lot that can be done with the classic Prog instruments from the Golden Age.  Same stacks of keyboards, Gibson and Fender electric guitars, Fender and Marshall Amps, Rickeback and Fender Jazz basses.  Drum sets with lots of Tom racks.  Then bring in any other instruments from anywhere and blend those in. 

The great thing about Prog is that it probably has the LEAST number or rules for it's genre... but there still are rules.

Playing a steady rock beat in 4/4 time constantly is not going sound Prog for too long.

The infusion of Metal into Prog such as NEO Prog is just bad metal in my opinion.  If I want Metal, I'll play Sabbath or Judas Priest.  You listen to "Sleep Theater"......not me.


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