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Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog?

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Wanorak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wanorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:19
I agree totally with what Lazland said!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 11:33
Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? Yes, good now we agree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 13:45
ITCOTCK -> Islands : Symphonic Prog
Larks Tongues -> USA : Heavy Prog
Discipline - ToaPP : Post Rock/Math Rock
THRAK -> The Power to Believe : Experimental/Post Metal

...seems pretty eclectic to me LOL


Edited by The.Crimson.King - November 17 2013 at 13:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 14:10
Fripp was going for a "metallic" sound on Red, too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheGazzardian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 14:12
In my mind, King Crimson are pretty much the de-facto Eclectic prog band, having evolved so heavily over the course of their career that if you were to pick out Court, Lizard, Red, Discipline and, Power, you could be convinced that they were five different bands. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 15:54
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Fripp was going for a "metallic" sound on Red, too!

Absolutely, not to mention USA which I always consider the first example of a mix of the heaviness of 70's Black Sabbath crossed with prog Headbanger


Edited by The.Crimson.King - November 17 2013 at 15:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 18:20
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Before you guys go on and bash me about not really liking King Crimson's music let's think about this critically. I have been having this thought surrounding my mind. Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? I do consider their work in the 1970s to be as eclectic as anyone but what about the rest of their career? I do not see any eclecticism in anything since Red in 1974.Step into this discussion to make your assertion about it. This is my assertion. I don't really consider them Eclectic Prog. What about you?
 
 
No, it is not exactly eclectic in the real extreme perfected sense. King Crimson in the 80's was structured musically around an idea  unlike any particular idea created by the 69' through 74' period bands. It was seperate and divided from the earlier composition of the band and that's what dominated their sound. In the early 70's the experimentation levels, the poetry, the arrangements of the band were impeccable and the times they were living in ..along with the chance meeting of the 4 members is another lifetime. Bob Fripp had worked in the areas of "Punk Rock" and also ..I forget the year..but he recorded Exposure, Sacred Songs, and Peter Gabriel , they were released as individual albums....but I recall reading somewhere that Fripp wanted to originally release the 3 as a triple set in a box with a booklet and title it "Exposure". He was influenced by "New Wave" and "Disco". He wanted to record ambient guitar sounds played over a Disco beat. Those influences I've heard in the 80's Crimson which just seperates itself and is so distant from the early approach to composition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 18:59
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I forget the year..but he recorded Exposure, Sacred Songs, and Peter Gabriel , they were released as individual albums....but I recall reading somewhere that Fripp wanted to originally release the 3 as a triple set in a box with a booklet and title it "Exposure".

My understanding was that Darryl Hall's record label thought it would be career suicide for him to release an uncommercial album produced by Fripp so they delayed it's release by 3 years Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surrogate people Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 19:07
King Crimson music througout the decades has shown influences from sources as diverse as The Beatles, Miles Davis, Talking Heads, The Police, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Tool, 20th century classical music, avant garde, atonal music, electronica, ambient....if that's not eclectic, then I don't know who is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 19:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 19:38
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

ITCOTCK -> Islands : Symphonic Prog
Larks Tongues -> USA : Heavy Prog
Discipline - ToaPP : Post Rock/Math Rock
THRAK -> The Power to Believe : Experimental/Post Metal

...seems pretty eclectic to me LOL

Well in essence that is eclectic but on the broader sense how is being for example "Symphonic" in an era, eclectic? I don't see why that's funny. I could say the same for other bands. 

The term 'eclectic' in the context of progressive rock describes a summation of elements from various musical sources, and the influences and career paths of bands that take from a wide range of genres or styles. While progressive music can be, in a larger sense, eclectic, the 'Eclectic Prog' term is specially meant to reference bands that trespass the boundaries of established Progressive Rock genres or that blend many influences. 
 
Now where is that in the albums from 1981 on?


Fly By Night-Moving Pictures: Heavy Prog
Signals-Hold Your Fire: Synth Prog

Trespass- W& W: Symphonic Prog
ATWT-IT: Pop Prog

Seems pretty eclectic to me LOL

As Kati once said. No that is not eclectic but changing musical genres Wink


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 17 2013 at 19:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:05
LTIA/Red are not heavy prog at all.  That is just one person's view and I don't agree.  The sheer plethora of influences, instruments and sounds makes both albums and also SABB straightforward contenders for eclectic prog. That goes for ITCOTCK too.  21st century Schizoid Man and Moonchild are not symph prog at all.  People who call ITCOTCK symph prog are probably just indulging in an unconscious selection bias and defining the whole album in the image of the title track and Epitaph.  I presume Fripp's brilliance in unifying the diverse elements utilised in the different albums gives the false impression that the music is not eclectic but it is, very much so.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:30
King Crimson is the definition of Eclectic Prog as we consider it.

Their first album consisted of multiple styles, as we consider them:

1. Heavy
2. Prog Folk
3. Symphonic
4. Avant-Garde
5. Symphonic

Yet their discography is wild with stylistic changes beyond this.

Eclectic means stylistic diversity in an album or variance over a career.  That is how I look at it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Triceratopsoil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:39
There are two issues here.

1) OP doesn't know what the word eclectic means

and

2) OP thinks that, even by his own definitions, more than half of an artist's discography is not enough to define their style by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:48
^^^ I don't know what Eclectic is?? What you smoking??(probably on something) I know what eclectic means. It means that there is a different set of influences within a band either in a song or album. I just don't see it in their later albums but that is my opinion! You guys need to take a chill pill and not take things so personal. I don't think their later stuf is eclectic. Big deal. If you look at my OP it asks for you to weigh in.  Geesh!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Metalmarsh89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 20:53
That's the cool thing about music. You can twist and manipulate the formulae that build your songs to the point where no one can agree on what the heck it is anymore.

But yes, for want of a better classification, I'd consider King Crimson eclectic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eria Tarka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2013 at 23:49
OP, what sub-genre do you think King Crimson should belong to?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KingCrInuYasha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 00:32
I think Crimson qualifies, at least up to and including the 80s albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prog_Traveller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 01:32
Well the body of their work was certainly eclectic and I think the majority of their albums qualify as eclectic more than any other category. Heavy prog works also but mainly just for the earlier stuff(especially the Bruford/Wetton era). The first two albums and parts of the two that followed could be considered symphonic but over all KC were all over the map stylistically. I think in the 80's crossover prog would be pretty appropriate with the pop and Talking Heads influences that were prevalent. However, I kind of lost track of them a bit after that. I suppose they flirted with heaviness again a bit in more recent years though.

Edited by Prog_Traveller - November 18 2013 at 01:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 02:28
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Before you guys go on and bash me about not really liking King Crimson's music let's think about this critically. I have been having this thought surrounding my mind. Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? I do consider their work in the 1970s to be as eclectic as anyone but what about the rest of their career? I do not see any eclecticism in anything since Red in 1974.Step into this discussion to make your assertion about it. This is my assertion. I don't really consider them Eclectic Prog. What about you?
 
Off course they are
 
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