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Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog?

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Gandalff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gandalff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 02:43

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:




Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:




Larks Tongues -> USA : Heavy Prog
Discipline - ToaPP : Post Rock/Math Rock
THRAK -> The Power to Believe : Experimental/Post Metal
...seems pretty eclectic to me LOL


Well in essence that is eclectic but on the broader sense how is being for example "Symphonic" in an era, eclectic? I don't see why that's funny. I could say the same for other bands. 
[DIVThe term 'eclectic' in the context of progressive rock describes a summation of elements from various musical sources, and the influences and career paths of bands that take from a wide range of genres or styles. While progressive music can be, in a larger sense, eclectic, the 'Eclectic Prog' term is specially meant to reference bands that trespass the boundaries of established Progressive Rock genres or that blend many influences. </span>
 
Now where is that in the albums from 1981 on?
Fly By Night-Moving Pictures: Heavy Prog
Signals-Hold Your Fire: Synth Prog
Trespass- W& W: Symphonic Prog
ATWT-IT: Pop Prog
Seems pretty eclectic to me LOL
As Kati once said. No that is not eclectic but changing musical genres Wink



You forgot:
Rush (1974) and From Genesis to Revelation: Prog RelatedWink


Edited by Gandalff - November 18 2013 at 02:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProgMetaller2112 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 03:42
Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:


Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:




Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:




Larks Tongues -> USA : Heavy Prog
Discipline - ToaPP : Post Rock/Math Rock
THRAK -> The Power to Believe : Experimental/Post Metal
...seems pretty eclectic to me LOL


Well in essence that is eclectic but on the broader sense how is being for example "Symphonic" in an era, eclectic? I don't see why that's funny. I could say the same for other bands. 
[DIVThe term 'eclectic' in the context of progressive rock describes a summation of elements from various musical sources, and the influences and career paths of bands that take from a wide range of genres or styles. While progressive music can be, in a larger sense, eclectic, the 'Eclectic Prog' term is specially meant to reference bands that trespass the boundaries of established Progressive Rock genres or that blend many influences. </span>
 
Now where is that in the albums from 1981 on?
Fly By Night-Moving Pictures: Heavy Prog
Signals-Hold Your Fire: Synth Prog
Trespass- W& W: Symphonic Prog
ATWT-IT: Pop Prog
Seems pretty eclectic to me LOL
As Kati once said. No that is not eclectic but changing musical genres Wink



You forgot:
Rush (1974) and From Genesis to Revelation: Prog RelatedWink


Oh yeah    Can you guys just lighten up. It is just a topic of discussion. If you think that they are. Make your points

Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - November 18 2013 at 03:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tamijo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:04
We still havent got the : Where would they fit better.
 
If you cant even answer that, then i would say, why not put them in Eclectic 


Edited by tamijo - November 18 2013 at 06:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:08
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Gandalff Gandalff wrote:


Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:




Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:




Larks Tongues -> USA : Heavy Prog
Discipline - ToaPP : Post Rock/Math Rock
THRAK -> The Power to Believe : Experimental/Post Metal
...seems pretty eclectic to me LOL


Well in essence that is eclectic but on the broader sense how is being for example "Symphonic" in an era, eclectic? I don't see why that's funny. I could say the same for other bands. 
[DIVThe term 'eclectic' in the context of progressive rock describes a summation of elements from various musical sources, and the influences and career paths of bands that take from a wide range of genres or styles. While progressive music can be, in a larger sense, eclectic, the 'Eclectic Prog' term is specially meant to reference bands that trespass the boundaries of established Progressive Rock genres or that blend many influences. </span>
 
Now where is that in the albums from 1981 on?
Fly By Night-Moving Pictures: Heavy Prog
Signals-Hold Your Fire: Synth Prog
Trespass- W& W: Symphonic Prog
ATWT-IT: Pop Prog
Seems pretty eclectic to me LOL
As Kati once said. No that is not eclectic but changing musical genres Wink



You forgot:
Rush (1974) and From Genesis to Revelation: Prog RelatedWink


Oh yeah    Can you guys just lighten up. It is just a topic of discussion. If you think that they are. Make your points


Funny you should say that, as you seem to be the sole person in this thread who actually would benefit from your own advice. People are cool as cucumbers in here. 
 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:09
In the 4CD box  "The Essential King Crimson Frame by Frame" booklet R. Fripp tells what's the essence of  KC to him : "Energy, intensity, eclectism".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:44
Okay, moved to Intensity Prog.




...next!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:53
LOLIntensity Prog. I like it! 
And while we're at it, why not change psych/space to swampy prog?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jayem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 06:56
Next ? 

Gong. Let's define the most accurate sub-genre for Gong.

Please...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 07:01
^ pixie prog
Acting on your best behaviour

Turn your back on mother nature

Everybody wants to rule the world

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 09:23
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

LTIA/Red are not heavy prog at all.  That is just one person's view and I don't agree.  The sheer plethora of influences, instruments and sounds makes both albums and also SABB straightforward contenders for eclectic prog. That goes for ITCOTCK too.  21st century Schizoid Man and Moonchild are not symph prog at all.  People who call ITCOTCK symph prog are probably just indulging in an unconscious selection bias and defining the whole album in the image of the title track and Epitaph.  I presume Fripp's brilliance in unifying the diverse elements utilised in the different albums gives the false impression that the music is not eclectic but it is, very much so.

As a professional musician/writer ..yes!....they often do give a false impression. If an artist is crafty and talented, the music they write is often thought to be a secret of the artist and not in the best interest of the artist to expose all of it. There are many fine guitarists on the planet who can play like Fripp...and they've mastered his styles..but his ideas and concepts, musical structures of composition are his own. People emulate it and often find themselves in a sling where they can't seem to produce originality within it. Fripp is definitely a mastermind in creating a very original style/sound in Prog. Originally Bob Fripp wanted the Red album to sound more "Heavy Metal". I have an interview tape where he states this several times and complains about Bruford not understanding how to play a "Heavy Metal" style on drums. John Wetton's bass had this roaring heavy sound to it ..but in the end..I believe Wetton and Bruford submarined his hopes of producing a Crimson album that produced a "Metal" sound. I noticed over the years how Red is a very loud recording and I'm assuming that Fripp may have suggested for them to play loud on purpose. Wetton's bass was so terribly loud on Fripp's personal collection of Crimson shows...that he had to wait for something new to be developed in technology in order to mix the distortion of the bass lower in volume and to a perfect balance. Fripp produced a heavy sound for Red ....but the horns, violin, ....dynamics of "Starless" are a completely different approach to utilizing elements within composition and are not evident in "Metal"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TODDLER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 09:51
Eclectic being drawn from various sources describes the meaning of how a schooled musician naturally progresses at a time in their life when they are developing as a writer. In Crimson's case...specific styles of playing found in Eastern music made it's path in their composition. It was sometimes subtle and collectively constructed within an ambient and dynamic section of their music. Just as the amazing Jazz playing of Keith Tippet, Robert Fripp, Mel Collins..was cemented into the compositions to produce a visual of sorts. Musicians sometimes practice producing a visual to be contained within the music.In this case..Crimson were very original and crafted the presentation of their improvisation with oddball dynamics. If you've noticed..."Indoor Games" has a little Zappa influence within it's character. Usually music that is based around a theme or a bizzare story idea is followed with a pattern by the musician to place the instruments in unpredictable sections of the music. This method or style of writing often covers up the eclectic side to things for some listeners and it may even go un-noticed.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 11:15
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Before you guys go on and bash me about not really liking King Crimson's music let's think about this critically. I have been having this thought surrounding my mind. Is King Crimson really Eclectic Prog? I do consider their work in the 1970s to be as eclectic as anyone but what about the rest of their career?
...
 
I'm not a great fan of some of these "sub-divisions", but they are a NECESSITY, however, the part that is not clear to most people is that these divisions are fluid and one day something may sound ecletic and the next day electric and the next day progressive, and the next day metalic ... which to me is an issue. That would mean that there is no composer and the music is not worthy of mention, unless it has a section in the store that we cannot ignore!
 
Like "rock" or "pop", or "jazz".
 
In this day and age of commercialization and people selling things by "styles", it makes a board like this and a proper discussion on "progressive" really difficult, and thus, I support the descriptions, though I think that a certain band fits better with the Christian Puddings, than the Protestant Souffles!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:26
Tricky prog.

They have slowly become one of my favourite bands. I like the way none of my friends can stand them. That's a sure sign they're doing something right..
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:41
Bands should be able to be placed in multiple genres as they change over their history.
 
Dean - Can you get right on that? WinkTongue
Ian

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 12:55
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Bands should be able to be placed in multiple genres as they change over their history.
 
Dean - Can you get right on that? WinkTongue
I did it years ago. It's a simple technique we can all use, all you need to do is listen to an album and decide where it should be and then imagine that is where it is, now any time you want to access that album all you need to do is reference the appropriate imaginary category via the expedient ethereal index et violin ici, nestpar!?  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 13:08

So if you are going to put genre into third-normal form then a band can have multiple genres - each genre entry to be delimited by the dates that apply. thus Genesis would be...

1969 - 1969 - Sixties proto prog
1970 - 1977 - Symphonic progressive Rock
1978 - Now - Crap....Big smile
 
the site would need to be changed obviously and then somebody to decide which bands were in which genre and when.....NOW THAT WOULD CAUSE SOME DIFFERENCE IN OPINION.....
Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 13:11
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Bands should be able to be placed in multiple genres as they change over their history.
 
Dean - Can you get right on that? WinkTongue
 
Oh dammmnnnn!
 
Forget Bach under Baroque
Beethoven under Romantic
Lizst under Lyrical
Stravinsky listed under ???
...
 
Want me to continue?
 
It's all listed under "Classical"! Which goes with my idea that in the end, we have to respect the composers and the artists much more than we do its "style" or "designation". Unffortunately, we're a consumerist society that is not capable of appreciating something unless it is labeled and designated in the way that they want and like! You do realize how "socialistic" that is, don't you?
 
Democracy! Indeed!
 
 
 
 


Edited by moshkito - November 18 2013 at 13:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padraic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 13:12
"progressive rock music discographies from 8,327 bands & artists, 42,059 albums"

Any volunteers want to get started?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 13:18
I will do it..........they are all crossover
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2013 at 13:21
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

...
I did it years ago. It's a simple technique we can all use, all you need to do is listen to an album and decide where it should be and then imagine that is where it is, now any time you want to access that album all you need to do is reference the appropriate imaginary category via the expedient ethereal index et violin ici, nestpar!?  
 
And probably smoke the right, shall we say ...
 
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