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Xonty View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Albums The Critics Got Wrong?
    Posted: November 24 2013 at 08:36
Hi, looking for albums that you think were either very over- or under- rated by the music critics (not just prog rock Smile). Try and include some examples of the critics' ratings as well if you can! Big smile

My most over-rated:

The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street 

While it is a great album, there are definitely some fairly mediocre songs, and just look what the critics gave it! 


My most under-rated:

Genesis - Trespass

My favourite Genesis album (and possibly all-time prog album!) but so underrated! (along with various other albums)
Also:

Pavlov's Dog - Pampered Menial

An obvious choice but I think it's an absolute masterpiece, and the album got so much criticism! There's only one on the link below, but you get the gist of it Smile

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 12:10
Hi,
 
The long cuts from 1970 to 1972 and 1973 got pasted by the press regularly, and it was considered by many to be over done and not musical, because it did not follow the top ten blues/song format that the corporate kissing magazines were supporting!
 
As such Yes, got a terrible licking for Tales from Topographic Oceans, and it was one of the best thigns ever written in rock music! Jethro Tull took just as much abuse for "A Passion Play" which is a prophetic work in terms of its analogies to the history of music and rock specially. And many others fell into the same thing to the point that everything had to be 4 minutes long, specially when the FM radio in America got bought out by the corporations that alread owned the music distribution circles.
 
A lot of the European scene got terribly pasted in the American press. England had a more interesting attitude about European music, but the hippocrisy never stopped. But Melody Maker one day even said that Tangerine Dream sounded like Washing machine music, and of course, that told you that they were stoned senseless, to the point that they did not even know what a washing machine sounded like! But we didn't give a sh*t, enough, to put those morons in their place! But the joke is on them ... their favorite kissypoo rock bands are not remembered and a lot of the other stuff they hated ... there it is!
 
It's one of the saddest and hippocritical things about life ... we never appreciate things HERE AND NOW ... we always love something else, and ignore our own children, and thus the arts for their day, never arrives! We're too damn selfish to even spend time understanding that and seeing things in a more historical vein. The 70's became the greed is good generation, and their kids, are the ones that picked up the progressive music where their parents left it off!
 
 
 
 


Edited by moshkito - November 24 2013 at 12:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 19:05
LA Woman by the Doors is a good album, but there's a popular ratings site out there (I forget which one) that has it rated as the best album on the website. I find that surprising and think it's inaccurate.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2013 at 21:58
Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

LA Woman by the Doors is a good album, but there's a popular ratings site out there (I forget which one) that has it rated as the best album on the website. I find that surprising and think it's inaccurate.

"Strange Days" is easily the best album The Doors made. "Waiting For The Sun" would have surpassed it had not the suits in studio interfered with it and wrecked it. The Doors were never the same band afterwards. LA Woman contains a good collection of songs but no thought went into working the songs into a cohesive whole.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 02:06
ELP - Works Volume One

got something of a battering at the time and even now is the main punch bag of ELP's back catalogue. It houses probably my favourite ELP track Pirates as well as some some exceptional 'fusion' music on Carl Palmer's side while Keith Emerson's Piano Concerto is an extremely respectable classical work . Perhaps Greg Lake's ballads are the contentious element of the album but lyrically (with help from Pete Sinfield) its a million miles away from Celine Dion and the like. Hallowed By Thy Name is is the stand out track on that side but even Closer To Believing is a lovely romantic song and not at all cheesy to me.

Admittedly I only gave it 3 stars and the solo side format of the album does pose a problem but some of the music on that album is just too good to be ignored imo.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 04:07
I think the last time I read a music review in a magazine was in the 80's. All reviews are subjective of course, but I'd take more notice of the opinions of someone on Progarchives, then some pretentious pr!ck at the Guardian who's probably more concerned with appearing to be cool than trying to be objective about the music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 06:26
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
 
The long cuts from 1970 to 1972 and 1973 got pasted by the press regularly, and it was considered by many to be over done and not musical, because it did not follow the top ten blues/song format that the corporate kissing magazines were supporting!
 
As such Yes, got a terrible licking for Tales from Topographic Oceans, and it was one of the best thigns ever written in rock music! Jethro Tull took just as much abuse for "A Passion Play" which is a prophetic work in terms of its analogies to the history of music and rock specially. And many others fell into the same thing to the point that everything had to be 4 minutes long, specially when the FM radio in America got bought out by the corporations that alread owned the music distribution circles.
 
A lot of the European scene got terribly pasted in the American press. England had a more interesting attitude about European music, but the hippocrisy never stopped. But Melody Maker one day even said that Tangerine Dream sounded like Washing machine music, and of course, that told you that they were stoned senseless, to the point that they did not even know what a washing machine sounded like! But we didn't give a sh*t, enough, to put those morons in their place! But the joke is on them ... their favorite kissypoo rock bands are not remembered and a lot of the other stuff they hated ... there it is!
 
It's one of the saddest and hippocritical things about life ... we never appreciate things HERE AND NOW ... we always love something else, and ignore our own children, and thus the arts for their day, never arrives! We're too damn selfish to even spend time understanding that and seeing things in a more historical vein. The 70's became the greed is good generation, and their kids, are the ones that picked up the progressive music where their parents left it off!
 
 


Some good stuff here. One of the good things about the internet is that it's broken the hegemony of the corporate music press, in which a handful of critics and magazines decided what was "good" and what wasn't. I remember when the American music critics were pushing Tom Petty, Jackson Browne, and Bob Seger as the saviors of rock music. (American music critics tended very strongly to promote American music. I believe this still continues, on sites like Pitchfork and others, if to a lesser extent.) I pretty much had no use for them from that point on. Those critics became the dinosaurs they accused bands like Yes and Floyd of being. Poetic justice indeed.


Edited by jude111 - November 25 2013 at 06:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 07:00
Islands by KC.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 07:11
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think the last time I read a music review in a magazine was in the 80's. All reviews are subjective of course, but I'd take more notice of the opinions of someone on Progarchives, then some pretentious pr!ck at the Guardian who's probably more concerned with appearing to be cool than trying to be objective about the music.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 07:17
I think Roger Waters said Animals got fairly bad reviews, one reviewer calling it 'warmed over heavy metal'

Keith Emerson once said that ELP were referred to as a heavy metal band by one music hack.

I think music journalists are generally to be ignored.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 11:25
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think Roger Waters said Animals got fairly bad reviews, one reviewer calling it 'warmed over heavy metal'

Keith Emerson once said that ELP were referred to as a heavy metal band by one music hack.

I think music journalists are generally to be ignored.


If both of these reviews happened in the 1970's that's probably not much of a stretch. ELP were quite heavy compared to other musical acts around, and Animals is also quite heavy by Pink Floyd's standards.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 11:35
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think the last time I read a music review in a magazine was in the 80's. All reviews are subjective of course, but I'd take more notice of the opinions of someone on Progarchives, then some pretentious pr!ck at the Guardian who's probably more concerned with appearing to be cool than trying to be objective about the music.
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Yes, so very much this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 12:03
every album ever
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 12:42
Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

LA Woman by the Doors is a good album, but there's a popular ratings site out there (I forget which one) that has it rated as the best album on the website. I find that surprising and think it's inaccurate.

"Strange Days" is easily the best album The Doors made. "Waiting For The Sun" would have surpassed it had not the suits in studio interfered with it and wrecked it. The Doors were never the same band afterwards. LA Woman contains a good collection of songs but no thought went into working the songs into a cohesive whole.

Just wondering, how did the suits interfere with and wreck Waiting for the Sun?  What would the un-interfered-with album have looked like?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 12:50
Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:


My most over-rated:

The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street 

While it is a great album, there are definitely some fairly mediocre songs, and just look what the critics gave it! 
 
To be fair, this album wasn't exactly given much praise upon its release...lots of negative reviews if I remember. It was only years later that it became heralded by rock critics as a bonified classic. A 'slow grower' I guess.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 12:59
Music critics who are wrong? Say it ain't so.

What about the once great Lester Bangs, who in this review of Captain Beefheart's The Spotlight Kid/Clear Spot http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/the-spotlight-kid-clear-spot-19720330 "foresees" future promise for the band. LOL Imagine Beefy making it big! I know folks back then perhaps were more susceptible to prog rock and experimental music, but I can't picture this album being played over the radio. Then again, I'm 31, I have no idea what it was like at the time - apart from what other folks relegate and what I happen to read.

There comes a time in the career of every pop musician who also happens to be a serious artist when he realizes the need for a balance between the most intensely personal type of statement and music of mass appeal. If he can strike that balance without compromising his integrity, he is probably a greater artist than even his staunchest fans previously suspected, and with any exposure at all the public would pick up immediately on the truth and beauty of what he is doing. With this album, Captain Beefheart has struck that balance with total success, and I wouldn't be surprised if he were a major star a year from now. Though you may have been a great shadow hovering over our music for half a decade now, Don, it can be said that in 1972 you've really arrived.



Edited by Guldbamsen - November 25 2013 at 12:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 13:42
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:


Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:


Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

LA Woman by the Doors is a good album, but there's a popular ratings site out there (I forget which one) that has it rated as the best album on the website. I find that surprising and think it's inaccurate.

"Strange Days" is easily the best album The Doors made. "Waiting For The Sun" would have surpassed it had not the suits in studio interfered with it and wrecked it. The Doors were never the same band afterwards. LA Woman contains a good collection of songs but no thought went into working the songs into a cohesive whole.
Just wondering, how did the suits interfere with and wreck Waiting for the Sun?  What would the un-interfered-with album have looked like?


It probably would have featured the full "Lizard" suite...although most reports tell that it was the band themselves that shelved the recordings of the full suite, because they were not satisfied with the result...

Edited by UMUR - November 25 2013 at 14:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 15:36
I remember Rolling Stone raving about "The Final Cut" being a 5 Star "Masterpiece." Read for yourself:   http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/the-final-cut-19830414
I would easily rate 6 other Pink Floyd albums as better than The Final Cut. I find it a bit too dark and inaccessible. It misses Gilmour's yang to Waters' ying.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2013 at 17:23
Originally posted by kjprogger kjprogger wrote:

I remember Rolling Stone raving about "The Final Cut" being a 5 Star "Masterpiece." Read for yourself:   http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/the-final-cut-19830414
I would easily rate 6 other Pink Floyd albums as better than The Final Cut. I find it a bit too dark and inaccessible. It misses Gilmour's yang to Waters' ying.

Final Cut is actually my fave PF album...Gilmour has a few great solo's but I'd agree he's treated more like a session musician than a proper writing/contributing member of the band Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2013 at 03:31
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by iluvmarillion iluvmarillion wrote:

Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 Metalmarsh89 wrote:

LA Woman by the Doors is a good album, but there's a popular ratings site out there (I forget which one) that has it rated as the best album on the website. I find that surprising and think it's inaccurate.

"Strange Days" is easily the best album The Doors made. "Waiting For The Sun" would have surpassed it had not the suits in studio interfered with it and wrecked it. The Doors were never the same band afterwards. LA Woman contains a good collection of songs but no thought went into working the songs into a cohesive whole.

Just wondering, how did the suits interfere with and wreck Waiting for the Sun?  What would the un-interfered-with album have looked like?

Morrison's tone poem "The End" from the debut album seems to get all the attention because it features in the film "Apocalypse Now", but really the first album is just a collection of songs from the band's live performances, without much thought to the way the songs should fit together on the album (other than it should finish with the epic). Still a great album, but not as great as some people make out. Strange Days works so much better as a whole and "When The Music's Over" is a better epic song than "The End". Then Morrison ups the ante and composes his epic masterpiece, "Celebration Of The Lizard". Only problem is that we never get to hear it on the next album. He also writes the best short song he ever wrote, "Universal Soldier" which does appear on Waiting For The Sun so why not the epic? And the actual song "Waiting For The Sun" doesn't appear on this album, but appears on the next one, Morrison Hotel. And the opener for the Waiting For The Sun album is Hello, I Love You, which was a singles hit for The Doors, but it's one of the earliest songs The Doors wrote and a rip off of a Kinks song. Hello, I Love You has no connection with the quality of songs that The Doors were writing at this time, namely "Universal Soldier", Spanish Caravan", "Waiting For The Sun" and Morrison's epic masterpiece, "Celebration Of The Lizard".
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