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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2014 at 09:36
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
 
The long cuts from 1970 to 1972 and 1973 got pasted by the press regularly, and it was considered by many to be over done and not musical, because it did not follow the top ten blues/song format that the corporate kissing magazines were supporting!
 
As such Yes, got a terrible licking for Tales from Topographic Oceans, and it was one of the best thigns ever written in rock music! Jethro Tull took just as much abuse for "A Passion Play" which is a prophetic work in terms of its analogies to the history of music and rock specially. And many others fell into the same thing to the point that everything had to be 4 minutes long, specially when the FM radio in America got bought out by the corporations that alread owned the music distribution circles.
 
A lot of the European scene got terribly pasted in the American press. England had a more interesting attitude about European music, but the hippocrisy never stopped. But Melody Maker one day even said that Tangerine Dream sounded like Washing machine music, and of course, that told you that they were stoned senseless, to the point that they did not even know what a washing machine sounded like! But we didn't give a sh*t, enough, to put those morons in their place! But the joke is on them ... their favorite kissypoo rock bands are not remembered and a lot of the other stuff they hated ... there it is!
 
It's one of the saddest and hippocritical things about life ... we never appreciate things HERE AND NOW ... we always love something else, and ignore our own children, and thus the arts for their day, never arrives! We're too damn selfish to even spend time understanding that and seeing things in a more historical vein. The 70's became the greed is good generation, and their kids, are the ones that picked up the progressive music where their parents left it off!
 
 


Some good stuff here. One of the good things about the internet is that it's broken the hegemony of the corporate music press, in which a handful of critics and magazines decided what was "good" and what wasn't. I remember when the American music critics were pushing Tom Petty, Jackson Browne, and Bob Seger as the saviors of rock music. (American music critics tended very strongly to promote American music. I believe this still continues, on sites like Pitchfork and others, if to a lesser extent.) I pretty much had no use for them from that point on. Those critics became the dinosaurs they accused bands like Yes and Floyd of being. Poetic justice indeed.
The inane  New York clique of critics, like Robert Christgau and the imbeciles at Rolling Stone were pushing their agenda very early on and were extremely negative about Prog music (as Mosh mentioned Jethro Tull regularly received scathing reviews). But even someone who now commands much respect in the rock world like Neil Young got horrible reviews for albums like Harvest and After the Gold Rush.
 
Humorously, after vilifying Neil in their magazine, Rolling Stone later gave both albums 5 stars in their ratings books -- because the rag spends most of its time trying to rewrite rock history, ignoring its own lunacy with a revisionism that equates to publisher Jann Wenner's need to include only bands he approves of in his b*****dized Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Hence, rap bands, the Jacksons, ABBA and other pop performers who were never considered specifically "rock" bands are enshrined, while Yes, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Deep Purple and The Moody Blues are not. Which is profoundly f***** up.


Edited by The Dark Elf - January 26 2014 at 11:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2014 at 10:47
Let us recognize at least one reviewer, for fairness--Chris Welch, late of Melody Maker.

But perhaps we have strayed from the topic. No surprise to anyone here that mainstream rock criticism has had it in for prog since early on.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2014 at 12:23
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think Roger Waters said Animals got fairly bad reviews, one reviewer calling it 'warmed over heavy metal'

Keith Emerson once said that ELP were referred to as a heavy metal band by one music hack.

I think music journalists are generally to be ignored.
 
Honestly, compared to what "Animals" was before it became "Animals" two or three years earlier, it deserved the warmed over something or other. But it wasn't that bad, and it should not have been given those words, and the concerts showed that the reviewers were quite wrong!
 
Music journalists are PEOPLE. And the ones at the LA Times, loved to show off their favorites and trash everyone else. They were all experts on The Who and Led Zeppelin and Rolling Stones, but their music tastes after that tended into the area of ... cheap and trash music!
 
A lot of this came to a head when the FM radio coming up, was playing more music than they knew or wanted to discuss, since they had not heard the new stuff enough to know where to go piss and poop. But there were some folks that helped. It's hard to think that Jim Ladd in LA was not major for Pink Floyd, BEFORE the Dark Side.days. But even at that time, Roger already did not care what reviewers said, and later you know how he reacted to things in the "Radio Kaos" thing.
 
The Wall, by the way, also got some bad reviews early, and when the movie came out, all of a sudden, it was great. And then the album hit really big. But it took a couple of months for it to take hold, and in LA, they were playing only two songs (Hey You and Comfortably Numb) until some time later when the other song became a radio hit -- We Don't Need no Education. And from that point on, there were some pundits in LA that thought the whole thing pretentious, but their voice lost its strength given the numbers, the sales and everything else. The 4 shows at the Sports Arena were sold out in like 20 minutes! A totally insane number.
 
So who needs "critics" when they only like crap anyway?
 
It's the same here, really, and you have to put a little salt or sugar on things, and you must remember that it is about YOU, and your listening ability and less about what I or anyone else says.
 
However, you have to know the "inner truth" to know what someone is saying, because not everyone is talking crap! And this is where "fans" get lost in the translation and advertising!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2014 at 16:51
Great comments about The Wall. When I was about 21 that album was the most important thing to me in the universe. I honestly believe that I wouldn't be here typing my nonsense but for that album and Roger Waters. Someone has to tell it as it is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2014 at 17:45
The "critics" never really meant anything to me, and like someone said, i don't think i have read any of their reviews since the 80s.
                 I have always hated Rolling Stone magazine, mainly for their lack of focus and understanding of European artists.
                      They really pissed me off with their lame excuse for a review of Quatermass's brilliant debut album. Typical.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 06:17
When I hear anything from art critics in general, regardless of his branch or specialty, I indeed can't afford to keep my attention to that - unfortunately? I actually don't know - I feel them excessively complex to the edge of boring explanation...  


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 06:55
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Great comments about The Wall. When I was about 21 that album was the most important thing to me in the universe. I honestly believe that I wouldn't be here typing my nonsense but for that album and Roger Waters. Someone has to tell it as it is.


The same could apply to me. I had the Wall before I got into Rush, Genesis et al... I was 13 and had no idea what prog rock was. I just knew that I liked music that most of my friends didn't like and I couldn't work out why..

I may not have gotten into other prog rock bands had it not been for Floyd.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 11:32
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

The "critics" never really meant anything to me 
Same here, Doug, screw the critics. Big smile
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 14:23
If I remember rightly someone from Melody Maker (possibly Chris Welch) went to interview Yes whilst they were recording "Tormato" and confidently told us that "Arriving UFO" was the greatest thing Yes had ever done and made all sorts of claims about how great the album was.
I do like Tormato, but it didn't live up to his claims.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 15:08
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:


                 I have always hated Rolling Stone magazine, mainly for their lack of focus and understanding of European artists.
                      They really pissed me off with their lame excuse for a review of Quatermass's brilliant debut album. Typical.
And they rated Rush's Clockwork Angels .5 higher than Justin Biebers whatever-his-was-at-the-time. LOL

Edited by HemispheresOfXanadu - January 28 2014 at 15:09
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 15:30
I am a lucky man (to paraphrase the ELP song) as I hate both Rolling Stone and the Rolling Stones for the same reasons= elitist, dysfunctional, rude, primitive and petit bourgeois . Neither know how to spell the word CLASS, mainly because they are school-less illiterate musician wannabees. Calling prog bands Jethro Dull, Muddy Blues, King of Crime and Unfocused was perhaps amusing to their mignons but showed how facile and imbecile they all were. But they are good at marketing and business which says little about the quality of these 'less than venerable' professions as a whole. Now Lester Bangs is the apotheosis of rock journalist idiocy and pretty much everything he has written (or had stenographed) was garbage mainly because that was his favorite style of music (garage=garbage?) . Rant over, breathe !

Edited by tszirmay - January 28 2014 at 15:31
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 16:43
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

If I remember rightly someone from Melody Maker (possibly Chris Welch) went to interview Yes whilst they were recording "Tormato" and confidently told us that "Arriving UFO" was the greatest thing Yes had ever done and made all sorts of claims about how great the album was.
I do like Tormato, but it didn't live up to his claims.

Yep but then Chris Welch just did the fanboy thing by the sounds of it that many of us are guilty ofLOL. Nice to have a bit of balance. Welch even turned up at ELP's 25th anniversary convention in 1995 (unlike the band Embarrassed). Big prog fan Chris.Cool
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 18:31
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


I am a lucky man (to paraphrase the ELP song) as I hate both Rolling Stone and the Rolling Stones for the same reasons= elitist, dysfunctional, rude, primitive and petit bourgeois . Neither know how to spell the word CLASS, mainly because they are school-less illiterate musician wannabees. Calling prog bands Jethro Dull, Muddy Blues, King of Crime and Unfocused was perhaps amusing to their mignons but showed how facile and imbecile they all were. But they are good at marketing and business which says little about the quality of these 'less than venerable' professions as a whole. Now Lester Bangs is the apotheosis of rock journalist idiocy and pretty much everything he has written (or had stenographed) was garbage mainly because that was his favorite style of music (garage=garbage?) . Rant over, breathe !

You must not be familiar with Bangs' review of the first Yes album. He liked Banks' playing and their cover of "I See You".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 20:53
I do not know how Rush Fly by Night is rated by critics, but I love it.  It is rated very low here on PA since I listen to it way more than albums rated much higher.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 01:44
Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:


I am a lucky man (to paraphrase the ELP song) as I hate both Rolling Stone and the Rolling Stones for the same reasons= elitist, dysfunctional, rude, primitive and petit bourgeois . Neither know how to spell the word CLASS, mainly because they are school-less illiterate musician wannabees. Calling prog bands Jethro Dull, Muddy Blues, King of Crime and Unfocused was perhaps amusing to their mignons but showed how facile and imbecile they all were. But they are good at marketing and business which says little about the quality of these 'less than venerable' professions as a whole. Now Lester Bangs is the apotheosis of rock journalist idiocy and pretty much everything he has written (or had stenographed) was garbage mainly because that was his favorite style of music (garage=garbage?) . Rant over, breathe !

You must not be familiar with Bangs' review of the first Yes album. He liked Banks' playing and their cover of "I See You".

The early embryonic version of Yes is quite different to the one that emerged in 1972 has to be said. I love the debut and Time and a Word mainly for Tony Kaye's lovely 'crunchy' organ sound. There is a warmth in the music that perhaps was less evident later. Possibly this may be the reason critics turned a bit on them later.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 02:02
I am quite familiar with his early 'heresy' but it took little time for him to become prog's slayer, ridiculing an entire genre, without any sense of open mindedness. He pilloried and ridiculed so many, in Creem magazine mostly,  a rocker vigilante that ultimately aided and obeyed in killing prog in the late 70s . That is a sad fact, indeed . 
I still have many of his articles and reviews at hand, proof in the cream pudding LOL


Edited by tszirmay - January 29 2014 at 02:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 10:48
There was a German version of the music magazine Sounds starting in the 60's. Luckily I was able to get hold of an almost 1600 page long book containing all reviews published there from 1966 to 1977 (I actually bought it in 1978), and some of those reviews are hilarious.

A lot of albums considered classics now were trashed: The Beatles' White Album, Led Zep's Physical Graffiti, Floyd's Animals; the list goes on and on. Others received a luke warm reception, to put it kindly.

Reading these reviews I think it's a small wonder that any of the great bands even survived the middle '70s. Thank goodness the fans saw things differently.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 11:01
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

There was a German version of the music magazine Sounds starting in the 60's. Luckily I was able to get hold of an almost 1600 page long book containing all reviews published there from 1966 to 1977 (I actually bought it in 1978), and some of those reviews are hilarious.A lot of albums considered classics now were trashed: The Beatles' White Album, Led Zep's Physical Graffiti, Floyd's Animals; the list goes on and on. Others received a luke warm reception, to put it kindly.Reading these reviews I think it's a small wonder that any of the great bands even survived the middle '70s. Thank goodness the fans saw things differently.


Any way you could post one for hilarity's sake?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 11:19
In principle I'd love to. It's just a matter of finding the time to translate it.
Any requests?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2014 at 11:24
Originally posted by Bitterblogger Bitterblogger wrote:

 You must not be familiar with Bangs' review of the first Yes album. He liked Banks' playing and their cover of "I See You".
 
I think that Welch was also one of the thrashers on TFTO and Relayer. I would like to see those reviews.
 
Btw, I believe, not sure that I am right or not, but Lester Bangs was the guy that called Tangerine Dream, washing machine music! As I said before, with ears like that who needs his reviews!
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