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King Only View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2014 at 02:56
I think that Vangelis' desire for musical freedom was what motivated him to set up Nemo Studios in London. It was his own studio so he could experiment however he liked, whenever he liked. So he had complete freedom and he recorded many hours of music that was not commercially motivated and was never released on any albums. There are several youtube videos of him just improvising and recording in the studio, and he's just playing freely and really enjoying himself. But of course he had to pay for the rent of the building, buying and maintaining equipment and paying the engineers. So he would license his music for TV commercials, sometimes lease the studio to bands that his brother managed, do soundtracks and of course also do the official album releases.

The only problem he had was with releasing music, because the labels usually only want to release one album by an artist per year. And of course the record labels want something 'marketable' (because they want to make a return on their investment, they are not charities or non-profit organisations). So the music that was officially released is not necessarily representative of all the music Vangelis was making privately.

But I still think that albums like "See You Later", "Soil Festivities" and "Mask" are obviously what Vangelis was personally interested in, rather than what he thought would be popular.

If you look at Vangelis' discography it's usually obvious which albums are his "personal" releases and which albums were released to "pay the bills". 


Edited by King Only - January 03 2014 at 02:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 11:21
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

I think that Vangelis' desire for musical freedom was what motivated him to set up Nemo Studios in London. It was his own studio so he could experiment however he liked, whenever he liked. So he had complete freedom and he recorded many hours of music that was not commercially motivated and was never released on any albums.
...
 
I think the economic disparity is the difference here, though. At first London was appealing, because it looked like where all the work was, but then, I think the expenses became too much and probably were forcing him to take on work he didn't want to do.
 
Eventually though, he found his peace back home, and I'm glad for it, but his London days and studio also produced magnificent work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 12:34
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Excellent video.

The hard part, is discussing what he considers "music" and then calling what he does "nature".

It's the difference between being 100% intuitive, and what we consider "music". We have come to the point that we believe only this and that and done this way is "music" and no one else can think otherwise, or do something different. 

THAT is the clue that it has become so commercialized and we need another 60's revolution to wake folks up to the fact that we can't explore anymore and we're not allowed to learn different things, except the same different chords and this time we will call it differently than the other one because you used the pinkie backwards instead of not!

We have become such a dis-disillusioned society that we can not even believe that someone can do something different, or that someone is not interested in the social belief and life that we're stuck on! And the worst part ... they are creative and we aren't!

As Jim Morrison would scream .. .WAKE UP! HAS THIS DREAM STOPPED?

BUT Vangelis was a commercial artist. When he moved to England he was put forward as the next Tomita with a dash of Rick Wakeman and a touch of the ELP's.

I think he slotted readily into this with Heaven and Hell and Albedo but then Beauborg was maybe his 'rebellion' against record company expectations. All popular musicians in the seventies had to work within parameters. This supposed freedom of expression you always allude to has rarely ever existed imo.

I am not sure I agree entirely. The 70's allowed for far more creativity than  later on. Especially the early 70's. Vangelis may allude otherwise but there has rarely been such a prolific artist and his releases fluctuated widely in terms of output. Yes we have Wakeman but my guess his dirge of releases occurred after the 70's and IMO were largely crap. Vangelis was commercial in the 70's and had the license to be creative, which he did


Edited by Chris S - January 05 2014 at 12:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2014 at 14:44
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

But I still think that albums like "See You Later", "Soil Festivities" and "Mask" are obviously what Vangelis was personally interested in, rather than what he thought would be popular.
If you look at Vangelis' discography it's usually obvious which albums are his "personal" releases and which albums were released to "pay the bills". 


Soil Festivities is brilliant, IMO. And when Direct came out, it sounded like he just felt like doing a prog-electronic album. Vangelis has certainly always played literally to the beat of his own drum (Beauborg, for instance).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2014 at 01:37
Agree with most of the above.
I don't dislike his commercial releases , in fact I love most Vangelis and own pretty much everything he's ever done. Voices was a commercial release but also contains some of the most beautiful music he ever recorded imo. There are also those wonderfull albums with Irene Papas. Odes ticked the commercial boxes and artistic boxes especially. I think the point I was trying to make is that no musician have complete freedom to release whatever they want whenever they want.  I didn't say he was 'commercially motivated' and wasn't trying to suggest that.. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2014 at 02:57
^ I agree with you re Voices. Unbelievable atmospheres and the follow up Oceanic. For me his pinnacle was El Greco. It is peculiar how we pigeon hole art. For example I would not say Heaven & Hell was commercial but in 1975 or whenever it was released perhaps it was!. The only commercial works in my opinion/perception were the Soundtracks Blade Runner , Chariots Of Fire, and 1492. Perhaps to a lesser degree Antarctica. And most of us know the history regarding Blade Runner and Ridley Scott.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2014 at 03:01
Anyone who creates a track such as 'Reve' (from his Opera Sauvage album) has got to be touched by a God.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2014 at 01:21
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

^ I agree with you re Voices. Unbelievable atmospheres and the follow up Oceanic. For me his pinnacle was El Greco. It is peculiar how we pigeon hole art. For example I would not say Heaven & Hell was commercial but in 1975 or whenever it was released perhaps it was!. The only commercial works in my opinion/perception were the Soundtracks Blade Runner , Chariots Of Fire, and 1492. Perhaps to a lesser degree Antarctica. And most of us know the history regarding Blade Runner and Ridley Scott.

El Greco is his most pure artistic work indeed

Chariots of Fire as it was on side 2 of the original album release was a beauty. That album is the 2 sides of the artistic coin. Sadly the recent reissue based on the stage play loses the suite. Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracksWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2014 at 08:18
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

 ...
Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracksWink
 
Actually we need to clarify this. The commercial decision is that $1.99 makes more money with short cuts than long cuts! It sells "more" for the amount of time. And this is the greed factor that no one will talk about, up to and including Apple, when these folks do not give a damn about music.
 
But you can do what Pink Floyd did. You can't cut up the long songs! But only a handful of bands can tell Apple to ____ off! And if you don't have control of your own music, you are hung out to dry and die!
 
That's my single greatest disappointment, that even Apple will not do SERIOUS classical music, and sell it. Meaning they don't give a damn about music. They just want the numbers, and it is obvious in their stock and rip-off stuff that is over-priced. The other online services that offer music are the same!


Edited by moshkito - January 07 2014 at 08:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2014 at 01:25
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

 ...
Perhaps a commercial decision as the download market doesn't like long tracksWink
 
Actually we need to clarify this. The commercial decision is that $1.99 makes more money with short cuts than long cuts! It sells "more" for the amount of time. And this is the greed factor that no one will talk about, up to and including Apple, when these folks do not give a damn about music.
 
But you can do what Pink Floyd did. You can't cut up the long songs! But only a handful of bands can tell Apple to ____ off! And if you don't have control of your own music, you are hung out to dry and die!
 
That's my single greatest disappointment, that even Apple will not do SERIOUS classical music, and sell it. Meaning they don't give a damn about music. They just want the numbers, and it is obvious in their stock and rip-off stuff that is over-priced. The other online services that offer music are the same!

yep I was gobsmacked what was done with the reissue of Tulls TAAB.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 09:09
Hi,
 
And that interview/movie that was supposed to be made is STILL not out.
 
I think that someone is waiting for him to die, because then, the release of the film/special will get a lot more attention. I just find the whole thing tasteless and sad and pathetic and I'm tired of people taking advantage of artists.
 
I saw this with Salvador Dali and already with 2 other artists in my life, and it ain't pretty!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 16:11
depressing thought but you might be right.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 19:49
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I think that someone is waiting for him to die, because then, the release of the film/special will get a lot more attention. I just find the whole thing tasteless and sad and pathetic and I'm tired of people taking advantage of artists.
 
I saw this with Salvador Dali and already with 2 other artists in my life, and it ain't pretty!

Sad commentary, but true.
Warren Zevon, anyone?  The vultures started circling right after he was diagnosed with mesothelioma.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 21:04
There is a longer documentary on Vangelis on Youtube, about an hour.

He's the tops in my book, as far as these kinds of composers/prog rock stars.
When I discovered Heaven and Hell, after being exposed the the big English
prog bands, I really felt like I had arrived at a different kind of animal.  Probably
too early to tell who the greatest living composers are, apart from Arvo Part, but
Vangelis is certainly the cream of the crop when it comes to prog rock/crossovers.

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Robert Pearson
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Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com
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