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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2011 Location: Melb, Australia Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
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Dammit, you got one of the vinyl ones too?! Sadly only the CD was on sale with the recent Kozmik Artifactz, so that was my format of choice! A mix of and , I suppose! |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64238 |
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Neat but does it really improve anything or is it novelty ? |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Sainsbury's are selling Aqualung in green vinyl if anyone's interested.
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What?
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 25 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 10215 |
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I didn't expect otherwise
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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Probably some of both, heavier to the improve side. I am sure some reviews will come at some point, right now it is just a kickstarter, I don't know the cost. The main concern with turntable mfg/design is isolation, the better it is the more musical detail you hear. My main point would be platter wobble, how is that handled. It's not the first design like this....there are magnetic support feet available, Clearaudio Statement tt has similar design and I think back in the day B&O had similar design.
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18327 |
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If I thought that magnetic fields were more stable and didn't fluctuate, even slightly, I might be interested.But you just know this is going to increase wow and flutter as the platter pitches and yaws within the mag field.
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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They are using some kind of software to control speed, which should keep W&F to an acceptable range or similar to other table specs. I am sure they have already tested this, simple test to do W&F. But yea I want to understand how they will keep the platter level? Not that traditional tables would be any better, if the sub-platter is off kilter then no way to fix that really. It's interesting for sure but the principal has been done before.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7018 |
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How do almost all cartridges work? By using magnets. This system uses strong magnetic fields to levitate the platter which will interfere with the cartridge's function. All the best turntables try to minimise the magnetic field around the cartridge by using low power motors in the least intrusive place. My Pink Triangle Anniverary uses a phenomenally springy suspension and it isolates it superbly from any vibration, so I'm unclear what advantage this new system offers. As a Physicist, I just cannot see this system rivalling the very best.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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One thing is evident from the video is that even though to keep the weight down the platter is not metal (they say it's "board" so I'm guessing MDF with embedded neodymium magnets) a huge magnetic field is needed to lift the platter that high so the designers have evidently addressed the issue of stray fields reaching the cartridge. [that said, the height is a silly gimmick, I'd prefer to see less lift as this would need a considerably weaker magnetic field: half the distance = quarter the magnetic field needed, quarter the distance = a sixteenth of magnetic field needed - lower lift-height also means a heavier platter can be used which helps speed stability]. Most cartridges are magnetically shielded using MuMetal (very high permeability but low saturation) so as long as the field strength at the cart is lower than the saturation level then this is not an issue (see below). The platter is essentially the rotor in an induction motor, and I suspect that this would be an electronically commutated brushless dc motor, so the platter will have permanent magnets embedded in the underside and of course if the topside of the platter has a thin ferrous layer (high permeability and high saturation) then very little, if any, of the magnetic field would reach the cartridge. Also rotating at 33⅓ the commutating frequency of the stator magnetic fields would be sub-sonic because of the low rotational speed (0.556Hz) but this depends on the high number of coils in the stator and the number of poles in the rotor. While the platter is essentially frictionless so would have zero rumble in the traditional sense, this commutating frequency would be analogous to rumble frequency so the material the platter is made from would have to dampen at this frequency to eliminate the analogous equivalent of rumble noise, which is where "board" has an advantage over aluminium or glass. Thinking about this logically, unlike a mag-lev motor where levitation, lateral stability and motion are provided by the stator coils, it would be simpler for all three forces to be separate, so the levitation would be a static field and the rotation a separate moving field. To maintain lateral stability I would envision the permanent levitation magnets being angled slightly into the central axis (creating an inverted cone-shaped magnetic field for the platter to sit in) with some strategically placed angled electromagnets to servo-out any off-centre wobble (side-to-side yaw and up-and-down pitch-angle). However, since in their design lift is lost when power is removed then they are doing all three functions with one set of rotor magnets and stator coils, which merely makes the drive electronics a lot more complicated but since microcontrollers are ten-a-penny this isn't a problem. In terms of specifications I'd hazard a guess that rumble would be practically unmeasurable for the reasons given above. As to wow and flutter, when you think about it this is a direct drive turntable, (it may not seem like it because there is no mechanical connection to the platter but it is because the platter is the motor), so this is going to be far better (W&F spec-wise) than a belt-drive without the inherent rumble disadvantage that direct drive has. Rotational speed stability is now governed by the accuracy of the commutating frequency, which in this day and age will be as solid as the rock of Gibraltar so again I wouldn't be surprised if this was also practically unmeasurable. Which just leaves Signal to Noise, which is not something I'm overly concerned about in turntable to be honest as this is invariably far better than that of the cartridge so is irrelevant, but here since there is no mechanical friction to generate "noise" then this will also be better than what can be practically measured. Edited by Dean - October 26 2016 at 01:47 |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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I agree seems to beg the question why the platter needs to be so high? I can only assume for visual reasons they pushed it so high, makes it "cooler" looking . MM, MI or MC carts are not an issue with this table.
Somewhere I remember reading the power consumption to be 12W.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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I have no idea whether 12W is high, low or average for turntable. A typical 110V AC 250rpm induction motor is about 3W but 24V DC brushless can be as low as 1W or anywhere over 100W. The DC brushless motor in a hard-drive takes less than 3W, so 12W sounds about right for this given the amount of levitation they're using.
To make it more efficient I'd not have a noticeable air-gap at all but efficiency isn't really an issue whereas aesthetics are far more important in this particular design's sales pitch. Of course if the air-gap it too small it means that eddy currents come into play which adds drag to the platter so more power is needed to maintain a constant speed, however those eddy currents do not add mechanical friction so mechanical isolation is maintained and it is still "rumble-less". [I think eddy current drives are an unexplored opportunity for turntable design, in fact I suspect modifying an existing turntable to have an eddy current coupled platter would be relatively simple to implement, but that's by-the-by] It also should be noted that bearing rumble is not only transmitted to the cartridge through the platter, that vibration also travels through the plinth and into the tone arm which is why tone arm decoupling/isolation is also important. However, I'm not that sold on the idea of totally frictionless bearings for a platter anyway, the current single ruby/ceramic bearing "floating" in an oil-filled phosphor bronze tube is more than adequate to minimise rumble vibrations in both directions and as Tony says, good plinth isolation deals with any external vibration. Plinth isolation via magnetic levitation would be slightly less cool looking but still a very marketable gimmick. It has to be said, gimmicky or not, this is a very cool design and not extortionately priced, unlike the ELP laser turntable which carries a stupid price tag and is as ugly as sin.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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Again very much agree, I can only imagine the designers probably looked at numerous designs and situations and have some valid reasons why it is so high sitting platter.
My platters main bearing is stainless steel wrapped/sheathed in teflon sitting in a housing with a couple drops of oil containing teflon so like a Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. Take the belt off and it spins freely for quite sometime before it comes to a stop....Seems to be a very good design IMO. I have seen pics of those laser players, fuggly yes and like US$15,000 I'll pass for sure!! BTW, they can only play black vinyl, for obvious reasons.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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My old Connoisseur BD1 turntable hadn't been used for 30 years and the belt perished long ago but when I gave the platter a flick with my finger it span for almost two minutes before finally coming to rest.
Edited by Dean - October 27 2016 at 10:42 |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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Conn tables were very well engineered/designed kit.....I always thought the tonearm was excellent. Nice wood plinth too...
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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Edited by Catcher10 - November 07 2016 at 11:32 |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17451 |
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Everything that is good about records is right here........
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Anaon
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2005 Location: Kobaļa Status: Offline Points: 849 |
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It is indeed! But it's a bit noisy at times though. It's quite hard to find perfect clean copies for this kind of music, like Tangerine Dream for instance... Here are my October finds : |
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Catcher10
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My wife buys me $2 Beatles albums cause she thinks they are worth money, I keep telling her that's why you just paid $2!! They are a dime a dozen everywhere.....She knows I don't like them but bless her heart! I usually get $5 trade in value for them at the record store, so it works.
Those Atoll look good, never seen that Yes and of course I have that Scorps album......Good stuff!!
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Anaon
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2005 Location: Kobaļa Status: Offline Points: 849 |
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The Yes album is their two first albums which I didn't find yet unfortunately
Atoll albums are great! I love this band!! About the Beatles, unfortunately it's not cheap here in France, like bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin etc etc Everybody want to sell them as high as possible even if the records are not in good conditions... Anyway, that's why I like these 70's pressing copies which are a bit less expensive
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Catcher10
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I did keep both the Blue and Red albums she bought me, both are in very good shape, easily VG+ record and gatefold. Those she paid like $20 each for, I was a tad pissed since I don't like them but then I figured heck in a few years I could easily dbl my money. I have a Sgt Pepper that is in pretty bad shape record wise, over played using probably a bad cartridge so I will not play it on my TT. She picked me up some nice copies of a few Phil Collins records last weekend at an antique fair.
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