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Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2504
Posted: March 26 2014 at 03:13
I finally got around to watching Senna today on Netflix. Watching him say whatever was on his mind during certain awkward moments in driver meetings and interviews (especially the Jackie Stewart interview) and being completely honest makes me respect that guy so much more. I already did from a drivers standpoint (how couldn't you, really), but as a man, I really didn't have as much knowledge as to who Ayrton Senna really was.
I have to watch 1: Life On The Limit next. This one, too, is a documentary that seems to focus on the super dangerous period of F1 from the 60's and 70's when danger and death were pretty much commonplace. All the reviews I've read have been positive, so that'll be next for me.
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: March 26 2014 at 07:28
Senna's amazing, it gives a real insight into his life and the way he went about racing. Not perfect though, it's a bit biased, painting Prost as a comic villain and glosses over the dangerous, win at all costs, on track moves he would tend to make.
I've heard great things about 1, it also covers the safety improvements that have been made since the 70's as well. Definitely one I want to watch, though I suspect the Roger Williamson crash will be a bit difficult to sit through.
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2504
Posted: March 27 2014 at 17:30
sleeper wrote:
Senna's amazing, it gives a real insight into his life and the way he went about racing. Not perfect though, it's a bit biased, painting Prost as a comic villain and glosses over the dangerous, win at all costs, on track moves he would tend to make.
I've heard great things about 1, it also covers the safety improvements that have been made since the 70's as well. Definitely one I want to watch, though I suspect the Roger Williamson crash will be a bit difficult to sit through.
Completely agree on this, although, I feel like that first major collision between the two in the '89 Japanese GP was more on Prost than Senna, seeing as how Senna seemed to have the position and Prost started his turn in a little early. The next year when the roles were reversed, I do feel like that was all on Senna. All in all, I don't think Alain Prost is nearly as bad a guy as it sometimes makes him out to be. They were simply rivals that didn't see eye to eye and really didn't like each other while on the track together.
And was the Roger Williamson crash the one where he was flipped over with his car on fire and another driver is trying to get others to help? If so, then yeah, that's a tough one to watch.
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: March 27 2014 at 19:01
True, but it does completely fail to mention how Senna broke a pre race agreement at Imola and how he very nearly forced Prost into the wall at Estoril earlier in the year, though on Prost's side he was very close to FIA president Jean-Marie Balastre and knew how to use it.
That's the crash, Williamson should have survived and his death was nothing short of criminal negligence on the part of the marshals and fire crews there. I hate Bernie, but I'm very glad that in the late 70's he strong-armed the tracks into adopting all of Prof Sid Watkins suggestions for improved medical facilities and response procedures, probably the single biggest improvement to motorsport safety ever.
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
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Points: 2504
Posted: March 27 2014 at 21:47
sleeper wrote:
True, but it does completely fail to mention how Senna broke a pre race agreement at Imola and how he very nearly forced Prost into the wall at Estoril earlier in the year, though on Prost's side he was very close to FIA president Jean-Marie Balastre and knew how to use it.
That's the crash, Williamson should have survived and his death was nothing short of criminal negligence on the part of the marshals and fire crews there. I hate Bernie, but I'm very glad that in the late 70's he strong-armed the tracks into adopting all of Prof Sid Watkins suggestions for improved medical facilities and response procedures, probably the single biggest improvement to motorsport safety ever.
It did seem to paint Senna as innocent to most incidents, and Balastre was totally in favor of Prost. Only way to describe the added $100,000 fine and 6 month ban on Senna after the '89 Japanese GP appeal. There's a book I'm about to start reading on their intense rivalry called Senna Versus Prost and some of the reviews I've read claim that the book is fairly pro-Prost. Maybe after reading that, I'll be able to form my own conclusions as to who was more of an a-hole. Or if they were just so both intense with each other that no matter what, a different person came out whenever they were around each other on the track.
And yes, the safety in F1 has been massively improved, with Senna's being the most recent fatality, almost twenty years ago. It seems like when they started to change the cars from the '60's to the 70's era and make them a lot faster, a lot of the tracks that they ran on weren't really designed for that type of speed. Couple that with very limited knowledge as to what could happen from track marshals, the teams, the FIA, and there you have a bunch of things happening that they weren't prepared for. Look at one particular incident in 1977 with Tom Pryce and a track marshal carrying a fire extinguisher where both he and the marshal were killed. With stricter regulations, something as simple as the marshals waiting for a local yellow or even an SC would've saved their lives.
I know you mentioned that before Sleeper, and I have to admit...it's mainly history class to me (not being around to see it) but generally yeah Prost was painted as the bad guy.
He may have been an a****le, but most are :( I've also heard Mansell was a pretty huge prick so there ya go.
Still have to see Senna! I even have a free Netflix trial going on right now, so no excuses.
I'd have to agree, it was probably mainly their intensity that was the problem. A classic case of having two #1s and how it rarely goes well! In my boredom I once saw that Prost technically beat Senna...but some weird point system didn't count all the results so Senna won under the rules of that system. He also lost by half a point in 84 so really, guy could be a 5 or 6 time champ! Seems to me he was probably one of the all time greats, a top 5 driver. Strange we rarely hear about him (at least here in the US) tons of Senna...even older guys like Jim Clark, Fangio! Of course Schumi. Never heard much about Prost though.
Anyway, I believe that both Prost and Senna have admitted (I know Senna did) to purposely wrecking each other. So guess it balances out??
Edit: I also have read (ty internet!) about Balestre and his favoring of Prost and France, but I think compared to Mosley later he's an angel
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
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Points: 2504
Posted: March 27 2014 at 23:16
I was just watching some clips on YouTube of sports commentary done in
other countries, and I have found them to be quite entertaining. I love
most of the American and English-speaking commentators, but these guys
that called the Fontana Cup race from last year (in French) are fantastic and seem
to love it. The last 3 laps are the best:
And this one (also in French). "Le Big One! Le Big One!"
Hey, we all know the rep it gets (even here in the US) but while I got a bit bored of it, (and sick of how "corporate" it became) I grew up on NASCAR. I found the strategy interesting and races exciting. I'm sure it can be enjoyed by our non merkan friends.
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: March 28 2014 at 08:58
I remember watching the second GP2 race at Turkey in 2006, were Hamilton
spun on the first lap then fought through the field to second, with
Spanish commentary, it was hilariously brilliant.
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2504
Posted: March 28 2014 at 17:23
JJLehto wrote:
LOL!
Le big one, that is honestly amazing.
Hey, we all know the rep it gets (even here in the US) but while I got a bit bored of it, (and sick of how "corporate" it became) I grew up on NASCAR. I found the strategy interesting and races exciting. I'm sure it can be enjoyed by our non merkan friends.
Or maybe it's strange and exotic to them!
I don't care what anyone says about NASCAR, because it's an awesome form of racing that's highly misunderstood. Like you said, the strategies are interesting and there's a lot more going on then turning left. It's what I grew up on, too, and most of the drivers have fun personalities that make some of the situations fun to watch. I agree on the corporate part, but I'm mostly disappointed in the direction of the cars (too aero sensitive) and the most of the boring tracks they go to (cookie cutter D-shaped). Honestly, the only forms of racing that I can't really get into is drag racing and motocross. I don't dislike them, but I don't follow them, either.
Glad to see McLaren's times back to around mid pack.
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166178
Posted: March 29 2014 at 23:14
Pretty fun quali session...looking forward to the race.
Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Joined: September 14 2010
Location: East Bay, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2504
Posted: March 30 2014 at 03:22
Well, Raikkonen was screwed over pretty fast. Didn't help Magnussen too much, either.
Also, seems to be a little bit of an inner rivalry brewing between Bottas and Massa, especially when Massa ignored team orders to let Bottas towards the end. I didn't mind it, as it helped Button cruise to a decent 6th place finish.
Finally watched the tape (4 am start!?) and I gotta say, was not quite worth the wait
Bit of a snoozer, everything quickly fell into line and not much happened.
Did feel awful for Ricciardo, real sh*tstorm of a race. He was running well too.
IDK if it's a rivalry per se, more like Massa simply isn't going to lay down anymore. The announcers kept saying how Massa stated "I won't be number 2 anymore". Gotta love it as race fans, and we all hate seeing the pushovers and love teammates racing and earning their spots, but it was indeed a team order violation. If he keeps this up all season will make quite a rough ride. But hey, Massa has been around since 2002 (holy hell!), was nearly a world champion, has played #2 nearly his whole career. Guess he feels he's hit wily old veteran status!
Great race for Hulkenberg, some nice dicing with Alonso and it was one of the 2 only good battles this race. They kept harping on he should've been in Ferrari over Kimi, and so far hard to disagree. He must've had damage...was shocked how Kimi didn't make up any ground at all.
Unlike Magnussen, who IMO REALLY showed off his stuff with his clawing back into the points
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
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Points: 16449
Posted: March 30 2014 at 16:37
The thing that annoys me about Massa is that he was demanding team orders early in the race to get Bottas to back off, if he's not going to follow them himself then he's got no right to demand others do the same.
And after the fun wears off...the realist comes out and I have to say, in the end if he's that much faster (to the point you have to ask him to back off) you probably should just accept orders and move over.
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The Motorsport Thread 2014
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sleeper wrote:
Or if they were just so both intense with each other that no matter what, a different person came out whenever they were around each other on the track.
