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Topic: Is Camel a "Canterbury" band? Posted: January 11 2014 at 01:28
Hello people; I just wanted to ask those who know more about the specific prog sub-genres and labels... Is Camel really part of the so called "Canterbury Scene" or just a standard Symphonic Prog band?? and I don't mean just Canterbury the place, but the "Canterbury Sound" that is attributed to those bands
Speaking of which, how do you define this "Canterbury Sound"? It seems to me as some kind of middle point between english psychedelia and progressive rock, with a strong jazz influence (Caravan and Soft Machine's debuts sound almost 100% psychedelic to me; while National Health and Hatfield and the North have some smooth jazz influence, and Soft Machine's "Third" sounds like full-on jazz fusion to me). I guess you could say Camel does have the smotth jazz-like keyboard melodies I mentioned; but I'm not really sure i it could be called a "Canterbury-styled" band.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 01:37
Years ago - around 20-odd, my first purchase of theirs was my LP of 'Mirage', and I thought I hit the Holy Grail of Canterbury. I believe they originate from Kent, and do share certain Canterburian traits with bands like Caravan and Egg etc. but they are not really considered as part of this 'Canterbury Scene'. Both David and Richard Sinclair have passed through the band, and Jan Schelhaas on keyboards so there are strong links for sure. I usually think of them as Canterbury, moreso than 'GonG' or Steve Hillage.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 01:43
No - Not a Canterbury band Yes - On some of the earlier albums, many similarities like the same fuzzy organs, jazzy elements, etc! Also the connection with taking in members from Caravan, etc.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 02:40
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
No - Not a Canterbury band
Yes - On some of the earlier albums, many similarities like the same fuzzy organs, jazzy elements, etc! Also the connection with taking in members from Caravan, etc.
I Agree Mike! I never considered Gong to be Canterbury as well.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 02:49
Hmm, Gong kind of exist in their own unique space, eh Sagi?!
And, with Tom mentioning Steve Hillage above, I think the only solo album of his that sounded anything like Canterbury was `Fish Rising'?
I don't recall any similar sound on `Green', `Motivation radio' or that first album (`L'?), though, with the exception of `Green' that I know back to front, I haven't played those others in a good while now.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 02:58
I saw Gong live with Hillage just a few years ago and Allen mentioned something about their Canterbury roots but they certainly had a different approach for it. BTW that was the best guitar playing I heard from Hillage ever, I was literally stunned after the first song ended.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 04:26
Camel is primarily a Symphonic Prog band (which is why they are categorised as such here), but I would say that two of their albums--Rain Dances and Breathless--are close to the Canterbury Scene. Richard Sinclair of Caravan joined Camel for these albums and this changed the band's sound in a Canterbury direction. Andy Latimer joked around this time about renaming the band Caramel.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 04:36
Camel's first four albums--Camel, Mirage, The Snow Goose, and Moonmadness--are paradigmatic Symphonic Prog albums to my ears with nothing to to with the sound of the Canterbury Scene. It was only with Rain Dances and even more so with Breathless that Camel came close to the Canterbury style. These influences were then abandoned again on I Can See Your House From Here.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 05:07
'Mirage' struck me as having a Canterbury sound even before I was aware that Rich Sinclair ended up in the band. And to top it off, David Sinclair filled in during 1979 (I have a recording....) and then Jan Schelhaas. On the other hand, 'Whitesnake' aren't Canterbury despite bassist Neil Murray's involvement with that band (and many other heavy-rock acts...) I just think Mirage shares many traits common with other Canterbury acts, and Sinclair adds a certain Canterburian whimsy (and impressive bass skills) when he was with Camel.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 07:32
Short answer: no. This is as close to 'Canterbury' as they got (even with former members of Caravan in the band), named after the Dutch band Supersister...
Gong is considered a part of the scene because Daevid Allen was a founding member of Soft Machine. Softs themselves basically stopped being a 'Canterbury' band after Third. Then you have the Belgian band Cos who are rightly considered Canterbury but also have Zeuhl elements in their music.
Camel's first four albums--Camel, Mirage, The Snow Goose, and Moonmadness--are paradigmatic Symphonic Prog albums to my ears with nothing to to with the sound of the Canterbury Scene. It was only with Rain Dances and even more so with Breathless that Camel came close to the Canterbury style. These influences were then abandoned again on I Can See Your House From Here.
Largely agree with this, especially the part about Rain Dances and Breathless. These two albums are imho the closest they ever came to the Canterbury sound.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 07:43
Maybe we should begin a new subgenre: Canterbury - related
Camel is not considered Canterbury, but years ago on the favorite albums poll on the Calyx (Canterbury) site, Camel had several albums in the list with for the rest almost 'pure' Canterbury artists
Related, that's what they are.
Canterburian traits, that's what they have.
I remember the idea of a mixture once of members of Camel and Caravan, which was to become Caramel
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 08:17
Camel was my gateway band into Canterbury, so I've always seen them as related. It was the liner notes to a Camel CD which made me aware of the Canterbury scene, via the Richard Sinclair connection.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:21
HolyMoly wrote:
Camel was my gateway band into Canterbury, so I've always seen them as related. It was the liner notes to a Camel CD which made me aware of the Canterbury scene, via the Richard Sinclair connection.
Same. And honestly I would put the same question about Caravan
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:32
octopus-4 wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
Camel was my gateway band into Canterbury, so I've always seen them as related. It was the liner notes to a Camel CD which made me aware of the Canterbury scene, via the Richard Sinclair connection.
Same. And honestly I would put the same question about Caravan
If Caravan is canterbury related than who's qualified for canterbury?
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:39
We've had this debate before, so for the avoidance of all doubt, it should be noted that the Caterbury "Scene" was just that, a scene. A bunch of musicians who formed groups at or about the same time who came from....erm........Canterbury, funnily enough. There was not, and never was, a Canterbury "sound".
Camel were never part of this scene. They were, and remain, an archetypal symphonic band, or as we called it then, erm....progressive, or art, rock.
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Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:54
There is a Canterbury "sound" or "scene" which is why many bands who are not from Canterbury get tagged as such by Prog Archives and pretty much every where else you look.
Funny though i've seen Camel mentioned as having that Canterbury "sound" many times and here's another thread about it so maybe as Moogtron III mentioned they are Canterbury-Related.
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Is Camel a "Canterbury" band?
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...... I always thought we agreed on 'borderline' ???
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
