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Topic ClosedKing Crimson vs. Gentle Giant Part 1

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Poll Question: Which album do you prefer
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
62 [81.58%]
14 [18.42%]
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Xonty View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2014 at 15:27
The Court by miles
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2014 at 21:23
King Crimson's debut, my favourite from the band. Though GG is great also.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2014 at 22:14
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

King Crimson's debut, my favourite from the band. Though GG is great also.
^This...........
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2014 at 22:17
It's close but I'll go with KC. If there was no ITCOTCK there would be no Gentle Giant debut album, no THE YES ALBUM, no TRESPASS and no Storia di Minuto or Per Un Amico. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 01:36
No contest. In The Court is the most amazing debut album by any band ever. GG's debut album has all the typical awkwardness of most band's debut albums. You can tell they haven't figured out the band's sound yet.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 03:10

In the Court of the Crimson King

When he rides, my fears subside.
For darkness turns once more to light.
Through the skies, his white horse flies.
To find a land beyond the night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 12:15
In the Court
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 13:29
Too bad I cannot vote for Gentle Giant's brilliant debut album, but well, KC's debut... Oh well, I don't need to explain this, do I? Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2014 at 02:46
3/1 for Crimson...I'm not surprised but objectively this GG album has better production and musicians are simply better. Court is a medicore album by any standards. 
"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 12:01




What makes the musicians better in Gentle Giant? Sure they are amazing, but in terms of writing a song King Crimson was always a band that bridged the gap between improv and composition, while Gentle Giant relied heavily on extremely well rehearsed compositions.
 
Going back to your comments on "Easy Money", one interesting thing that you obviously overlooked was that Wetton, playing bass and singing, has a bassline in 4/4 while his vocals are in 7/4, only to match up just in time for the chorus, thats an interesting aspect of that tune, for one. Crimson and Fripp have said many times that the studio was not KC's stage. Listen to any of the live recordings from the 1974 tours and try to tell me that the band is not at the peak that all bands wish to hit. Easy Money live in Glasgow, October 23, 1973 is just an awesome recording. Listen to it, do yourself a favour. Bruford and Wetton are on telepathic levels in the rhythm department, responding to Fripp and Cross' every move, as they do theirs. King Crimson was a band that needed to be heard live, that was the format.
Gentle Giant was always an 'interesting' band for me. A super talented band that wrote some amazing stuff. I love em, but you have to admit that many of their compositions end up in a very different place from their starting points. And to be honest, a lot of their material seems like a bunch of small ideas packed into one 'song'. Not to mention that though Derek Shulman was a good performer and writer, I never considered him to have an interesting singing voice and he relied heavily on repetitious vocal melodies that sometimes don't develop. Vocally, Crimson was always stronger, and especially if you are comparing Shulman to the voices of Greg Lake or John Wetton. Derek Shulman is also partly responsible for giving Nickelback and BonJovi record deals as he became a big record exec. Love GG though, with all that said.
To say that Fripp is not a virtuoso is the stupidest reason I have ever heard to not want to listen to KC. Who gives a sh*t? If being a virtuoso means being a stage hogging finger flapper then whatever, I don't care. I'm a music lover. If one expects virtuosity, then you are forming preconceptions for music that you haven't heard, and that is terrible. One thing that you can't take away from Fripp is that he sounds like Fripp. I can tell its him if he plays one note, and I can tell when players attempt to imitate him (The guitar solo in "Animal Bar" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers has Frusciante doing a great Frippian solo) Most players will never achieve that 'voice'.
To comment on the Rolling Stone list, everyone knows its a bunch of crap. However, I don't believe any guitar player in the prog genre could play like Johnny Ramone (here come the rebuttals). Hear me out: Johnny Ramone knew how to play Power Chords and some Minor chords. Not impressive I know, but what he accomplished with such little material is. Not to mention, the Ramones played way faster live, and Johnny downstroked all those chords for two hours a night. For those concerned with virtuosity, Johnny's ability to play those fast downstrokes was a technique learned over years of touring, in other words he would kick your ass at it. I don't know anyone that can do that, sorry. Don't attack Johnny Ramone because he's not Fripp, or Howe or Lifeson. He never tried to be something he wasn't. He knew he was crap and did the best he could do. and quite frankly prog got cheesy towards the end of the 70s and I'm glad punk washed away the crap.
Does he deserve a spot on the Top 100 list? No, and neither does any other music respecting guitarist. 
Are we fans of virtuosity or fans of music? They are not necessarily the same, because I believe most music being dedicated to virtuosity is awful (just listen to a victor wooten record, you'll think you were at the dentist)
Therefore neither album is better because it doesn't matter. For the record King Crimson piqued my interest in Prog music when I discovered ITCOTCK in my uncle's vinyl collection. Without that initial spark, I would have never been lead to Gentle Giant. Thats what music is about, discovery. Don't rob somebody of discovery by feeding people preconceptions they shouldn't have. 






Edited by vincedbass - April 20 2014 at 13:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 18:24
ITCOCK. I can't stand Gentle Giant, period. The vocals give me a headache. The band has lots of musical ability, which they use to great effect in giving me a headache. BTW, Fripp is a virtuoso, but what's the point if he's not? Is there supposed to be some virtuoso guitar work on this Gentle Giant album? Any Gentle Giant album? I missed it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 18:30
As great as GG is, I have a feeling I'll be voting for Crimson on every single one of these polls.  We'll see.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 18:46
King Crimson by a country mile. No contest really.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 18:49
Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

3/1 for Crimson...I'm not surprised but objectively this GG album has better production and musicians are simply better. Court is a medicore album by any standards. 

The funny thing is I don't think you're being objective here at all but rather subjective. In the Court of the Crimson King is a prog rock masterpiece and it's place in history, whether you agree or not, has been secured.
“Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 19:25
Originally posted by Mirror Image Mirror Image wrote:

Originally posted by LSDisease LSDisease wrote:

3/1 for Crimson...I'm not surprised but objectively this GG album has better production and musicians are simply better. Court is a medicore album by any standards. 

The funny thing is I don't think you're being objective here at all but rather subjective. In the Court of the Crimson King is a prog rock masterpiece and it's place in history, whether you agree or not, has been secured.

I was absolutely blown away with King Crimson's debut. Absolutely enthralled, particularly with the songs "21st Century Schizoid Man" and "In the Court of the Crimson King". Over 40 years later, that feeling remains. Gentle Giant, although competent musicians with interesting ideas, have never given me that visceral thrill.

So, to say In the Court of the Crimson King is "a mediocre album by any standards" completely ignores any historical or critical context. Why the odd animosity? What, did the album cover cut one of your arteries when you were young? The only critic who would agree with you is Robert Christgau, who has had his head up his ass while listening to albums since 1969. 

My suggestion: don't be a Christgau. You will end up idolizing the New York Dolls and hating prog altogether.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 19:37
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


[/QUOTE
The only critic who would agree with you is Robert Christgau, who has had his head up his ass while listening to albums since 1969. My suggestion: don't be a Christgau. You will end up idolizing the New York Dolls and hating prog altogether.

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When he rides, my fears subside.
For darkness turns once more to light.
Through the skies, his white horse flies.
To find a land beyond the night.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2014 at 19:50
KC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 05:27
My vote KC ITCOTCK,its such a classic work.I've tried my best to get into GG but i'm faltering.Maybe its because i'm mainly a prog related,psych/space prog & heavy prog fan? I do love the KC up to RED after that i have problems with KC as well.Enough rambling on my part.
"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal"   Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2014 at 22:44
Crim. Hard to go against ITCOTCK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2014 at 17:34
sorry, Gentle Giant, I've always been a big fan, but this poll was easy.

In the Court of The Crimson King got my vote.
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