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LSDisease View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ukraine
    Posted: January 23 2014 at 11:55
It's almost a civil war over there now. But one thing is really interesting. Who finances that riot?

Possible answers

The European Union : they want to expand their influence in Europe.
Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
International Monetary Fund (inspired by the US and possibly the EU): because they need more borrowers as Romania and Hungary are no longer interested in loans that create an extra debt.
USA: American government who wants to control shale gas fields in the western part of Ukraine, which is possible after Ukraine signed $10 billion shale gas deal with American company Chevron.
Common people: after propaganda spread in media "Ukrainians want freedom". Of course media create that image for political purposes

Any other ideas?


Edited by LSDisease - January 23 2014 at 11:57
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:01
All of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:04
yeah it's possible 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:20
Originally posted by LSDisease


Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
 

I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:31
Originally posted by ole-the-first


I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.


Objectively speaking, Russian government is pretty well organized and influential. At least in comparsion with other governments in Eastern Europe. It's better for Ukraine to stay where they are. The EU is deader than dead.


Edited by LSDisease - January 24 2014 at 04:58
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ole-the-first Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:44
Originally posted by LSDisease

Objectively speaking, Russian government is pretty well organized and influential.

Ahh, it's still quite influential but it's barely well-organized. During the past few years the State Duma is getting more and more idiotic and every political desicion or adopted law could be done in a dramatically different (and smarter) way. Honestly, the political life in Russia looks more like a circus than any conscious form of ruling apparatus.

As for Ukraine, I don't support nor pro-Russian, nor pro-EU party. I just never lived there and I can't judge what would be the better way for their country.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:45
Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 12:50
Originally posted by ole-the-first

 
Ahh, it's still quite influential but it's barely well-organized. During the past few years the State Duma is getting more and more idiotic and every political desicion or adopted law could be done in a dramatically different (and smarter) way. Honestly, the political life in Russia looks more like a circus than any conscious form of ruling apparatus.

As for Ukraine, I don't support nor pro-Russian, nor pro-EU party. I just never lived there and I can't judge what would be the better way for their country.


There's no stupider law than the one being created in the EU offices. Trust me.


Edited by LSDisease - January 23 2014 at 12:51
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
Originally posted by Dean

Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.
I wonder if there's a conspiracy behind the creation of all of these conspiracies.... Stern Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:12
I'm not convinced anyone is 'funding the riots' That's not so say that uprisings are never influenced and part funded by outside parties.

I've not been following the problems in Ukraine very closely, but it appears - from the outside - that the majority want EU membership and don't want to go backwards into Russias sphere of influence.

Not that the EU is a great bet right now..
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 13:42
You forgot about the possibility of an extraterrestrial funding.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:00
Originally posted by The T


Originally posted by Dean

Oh yippee, another pointless conspiracy conspiracy.
I wonder if there's a conspiracy behind the creation of all of these conspiracies.... Stern Smile


Yes, of course. Conspiracy theories are hatched by government operatives to make the 'official line' on anything seem more credible...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:12
Conspiracies are then hatched by the targets of conspiracy theories to make the official conspiracy a little less conspiratorial... Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Svetonio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2014 at 14:40
Originally posted by ole-the-first

Originally posted by LSDisease


Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
 

I'm afraid that that kind of scenario is way too hard for Russian governmentLOL Really, you have to live here to understand how lame the Russian government is.

Actually, the whole Eastern Ukraine is on pro-Russian positions and the Western Ukraine is on more nationalist side. That's been this way for more than twenty years. Both parties are almost equally influential, so sometimes pro-Russian parties take control over Ukraine and sometimes the nationalists do so. The Russian intention is of course to have influence on Ukrainian politics, but rather by lobbying the already existing pro-Russian side.
I think that comrade Stalin made mistake due to Galitzia wasn't republic in USSR.
In that case, Galitzia would be an independet state now, as for example Moldova, and everything be quiet up there.
But who could have know in advance, even Stalin could not have to know that.
Thus, Ukraine will forever be at dangerous seesaw between Russia and EU (NATO).






Edited by Svetonio - January 23 2014 at 14:46
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:16
Originally posted by The T

Conspiracies are then hatched by the targets of conspiracy theories to make the official conspiracy a little less conspiratorial... Wacko


Then the original conspiritors make sure that the more seemigly plausible conspiracy theories are always juxtoposed in the media - which they obviously control - with obviously ridicuouls theories - the queen is a lizard, the moonlanding was shot in Nevada etc etc - to detract crebility from them...

Complex isn't it...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote LSDisease Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:31
Originally posted by Svetonio

 
 
I think that comrade Stalin made mistake due to Galitzia wasn't republic in USSR.
In that case, Galitzia would be an independet state now, as for example Moldova, and everything be quiet up there.
But who could have know in advance, even Stalin could not have to know that.
Thus, Ukraine will forever be at dangerous seesaw between Russia and EU (NATO).




Eastern Galicia wouldn't be an independent state, it would be Polish same as the Western Galicia is. Stalin didn't want that.


Edited by LSDisease - January 24 2014 at 04:57
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Toaster Mantis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 04:49
The most insightful English-language overview of the political situation in Ukraine that I've read so far comes from oddly enough the usually hit-and-miss, and almost always cranky, right-libertarian webzine Taki's Magazine. Then again it's a guest contribution from Scott Locklin who's one of my favourite bloggers rather than one of their regular columnists.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2014 at 23:13
I have some Ukrainian friends. Horrible proxy conflict going on there. Good luck to them. ErmmUnhappy

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Post Options Post Options   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2014 at 14:23
Originally posted by LSDisease

It's almost a civil war over there now. But one thing is really interesting. Who finances that riot?

Possible answers

The European Union : they want to expand their influence in Europe.
Russia: they provoke the conflict to divide Ukrainian society because it's easier to control a divided nation.
International Monetary Fund (inspired by the US and possibly the EU): because they need more borrowers as Romania and Hungary are no longer interested in loans that create an extra debt.
USA: American government who wants to control shale gas fields in the western part of Ukraine, which is possible after Ukraine signed $10 billion shale gas deal with American company Chevron.
Common people: after propaganda spread in media "Ukrainians want freedom". Of course media create that image for political purposes

Any other ideas?


All of them are wrong: the riots are financed by the FEMEN! Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jim Garten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2014 at 06:10
Originally posted by Guldbamsen

You forgot about the possibility of an extraterrestrial funding.


Personally, I believe it's the fault of an extra-terrestrial Marxist (and therefore racist) feminist movement funding the riots to convert the Ukraine to capitalism.

There - that should tick all the boxes, can we close the thread now please?

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